Episode 81

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Published on:

2nd Apr 2025

81 | What social media isn't telling you about the nervous system // with Erika Behunin

Erika Behunin is a LCSW and runs her private therapy practice where she mostly works with women with anxiety helping with nervous system regulation.

In this episode we discuss:

  • understanding the nervous system "ladder"
  • the hidden key to feeling safe and regulated
  • normalizing feeling dysregulated
  • practical ways to move up the ladder
  • how to be present with your kids when your brain won't stop spinning

Connect with @erikabehunin on Instagram

erikascounseling.com

Hang out with me on Instagram @thealexfales

Join the waitlist for The Serenity

Transcript
Speaker:

I am Alex, and you're listening to The Mindful With Media Podcast.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Well, do

you wanna just start by introducing

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yourself and your business?

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Erika Behunin: Yes, so

my name's Erica v Hanin.

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I am a licensed clinical social worker.

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I have three kids and I have

my own private practice.

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So I mostly work with women with anxiety,

helping with nervous system regulation.

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I also see kids 10 years and older.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Okay, awesome.

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And I first found Erica, I don't

even know how, but on Instagram,

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and I was immediately drawn to

the content she was sharing.

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She just shares.

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About nervous system

regulation and grief and.

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These, all these what can be complex

topics, but I feel like you share it in

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a way that's very simple and digestible.

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And that's what I was really drawn to.

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So it's been fun to both learn from you.

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And then also we've gotten to

work together a little bit on

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the business side of things too.

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So I have had several clients lately come

to me with questions about the nervous

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system and nervous system regulation.

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And so I wanted to have an expert come

talk about this topic and how it applies

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to both moms, like the caregiving side

of things, and woman, you know, just

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being a woman and also in business.

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So what do you have to teach us,

Erica, about the nervous system?

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Erika Behunin: Oh, thanks so much, Alex.

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I am so happy to be here.

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You're right, the nervous

system can be so complex.

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, and I will not pretend I'm a

neuroscientist at all, but this,

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this understanding of how we

can take something very complex

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and apply it to our daily lives.

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Has been a game changer for

me personally in my own life.

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It is something that I go through and

teach and explore with every one of

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my clients, and I've also taught my

kids, , and I'll just give it age range

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because this is something that for your

listeners, they can also take some of this

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information and teach it to their kiddos.

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I have a 12-year-old, a 10-year-old, and

a 6-year-old, and they all have a basic

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understanding of their own nervous system.

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So let's start with just

understanding the basics.

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We have an autonomic nervous system,

and its main job is to keep us safe.

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You can think of it as your own

personal surveillance system,

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and our nervous system has been

formed since we were in utero.

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So really, so many of our early

life experiences have helped shape

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how our nervous system functions.

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This can give people, when I'm working

with clients, so much more control and

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power over their future because the

nervous system can also be changed.

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But it can give you insight

of why do I do certain things?

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Because this is happening,

happening at an unconscious level.

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So just hold that in mind that

it, your main job of your nervous

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system is to keep you safe.

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Then it's divided into two main branches.

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So we have our sympathetic nervous system

and our parasympathetic nervous system.

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So we'll kind of go through each of

these, Alex, and this is something

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again, I do with my client.

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So for those who are listening, I want,

if you have a piece of paper, pull out

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a piece of paper and a pen and we'll

kind of go through this exercise.

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If not, maybe you can listen to this

later and, and try it out on your own.

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But think of making a

little simple ladder.

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So just two lines and then

little runs in the ladder.

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This is called our nervous System Ladder.

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This was developed by another clinical

social worker named Deb Danna.

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So I did not create this ladder, but

she took this idea of the science behind

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the nervous system, and again, how do

we apply this to our everyday life?

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So

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At the top of your ladder.

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I want you to write, rest, and digest.

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So this is part of your nervous system.

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That's your parasympathetic

nervous system.

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So many of us are familiar with.

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Rest and digest.

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Have you heard of that before?

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Alex?

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Part of your parasympathetic

nervous system that's kind of,

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this is like your safe space.

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The top of your ladder.

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You wanna write connection, safety.

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Okay, we're gonna come back 'cause

I always like ending with more

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of a, the top of our ladder.

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But as we go down to the middle

of your ladder, that's where your

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sympathetic nervous system is.

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We're gonna categorize that there.

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Your sympathetic nervous system

is what many of us have heard is

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this fight or flight response.

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And this space is where

we feel often anxiety.

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So I like to say anxiety lives here.

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This may be where feeling

irritable or on edge.

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Resides

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when our sympathetic

nervous system is activated.

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That means our body has sensed a threat.

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And so we have adrenaline

released cortisol release.

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We're, we are trying to decide,

our body for us is deciding,

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is this, do we need to fight?

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Do we need to flea?

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How do we stay safe?

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And today's world, and especially

as busy moms, sometimes we're not

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being attacked right by a tiger, but

we're feeling overwhelmed, right?

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Mom, mom, mom or or, and moms who are

also working and having to get out of the

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house and you know, they're spilled milk.

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And then they're spilled

milk again, right?

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All there's

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

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Erika Behunin: triggers during the day

for so many women, for so many people.

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And when we live in this constant

state of being, like on edge, a

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fight or flight response, it also,

it impacts our mental health, but

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it also impacts our physical health.

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There's more sleep disturbances here.

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Our digestion doesn't work as well.

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We see more problems with blood pressure.

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More autoimmune disorders.

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So there's a host of things that

when we're constantly activated in a

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sympathetic response, our physical body

and our mental health suffers when we

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go down to the bottom of our ladder.

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Now this space is called

our shutdown phase.

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This is where more depression lives.

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Some people might hear the, the

term like freeze response, how

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we have fight, flight or freeze

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as a defense mechanism.

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Where you, you think maybe of like

that saying that comes like, for,

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you know, a possum plays dead, right?

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So if a, if an animal sensed threat and I

decided, you know, in milliseconds I can't

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fight, I can't flee, I'm gonna play dead.

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So this bottom of our ladder is where

our system feels completely overwhelmed,

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maxed out, we're gonna shut down.

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Dissociation frequently

happens in this nervous system.

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State, feelings of being numb

kind of chronic fatigue can live

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here, hopelessness, helplessness.

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That feeling of almost where you

just, you feel super heavy, like all

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this energy has just left your body.

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Almost that feeling of like,

I just wanna lay in the like

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on the floor and not get up.

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So I wanna clarify that

space a little bit more.

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So we have our parasympathetic and our

sympathetic, our parasympathetic, which

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Alex was the top of your ladder, and

then the very bottom of your ladder.

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Most people are familiar again with that

rest and digest, but we're not familiar,

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as familiar with this other pathway

that leads us to the bottom of our

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ladder of this depressed shutdown state.

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And that has to do with our vagus nerve.

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Are you familiar with the vagus

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I, I feel like a lot of these

terms I've heard, or, you know, like the,

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there's like the viral Instagram reels

about like, I know I'm not being chased

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by a bear, or, you know what I mean?

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Or what does, what does that

thing of like, something about not

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being chased by a bear or my body

doesn't know the difference between

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being chased by a bear and what

everything is triggering for them.

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And yeah, I've heard a lot about the

vagus nerve, but I teach me more.

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I'm like.

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Erika Behunin: Okay.

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And, and you're right, there's

so many social media posts on

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nervous system regulation, and

some can be really helpful.

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And then sometimes we're just like,

wait, but what is this really?

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah, exactly.

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Erika Behunin: yeah.

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So the vagus nerve is our

10th cranial nerve, but it

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is our longest cranial nerve.

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So it starts at the base of our skull.

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And in Latin, the word vagus means wander.

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So I, that's kind of a helpful way to

remember it, is because our vagus nerve is

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kind of like, it wanders through our body.

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So it's, it's bidirectional,

meaning it goes two ways.

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So it can go down through our

touching into our heart, our vital

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organs through our lungs and into

our abdomen, like into our diaphragm.

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And then it also travels up through our

throat and connecting to other cranial

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nerves in our ears and on our eyes.

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So it's why that, why that even matters

is have you ever noticed, like when you

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first meet somebody, you, your nervous

systems are speaking to each other, right?

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So you are getting this sense, you know,

have you kind of that feeling of, oh my

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gosh, they're, they sounded really rude,

or they were cranky, or what with them?

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Or they looked at me funny.

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Your nervous system is picking

up these cues of, is this safe?

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Is this person safe?

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Is this situation safe?

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Or, oh, I, I, i, something

feels off about them, right?

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So you, we can use our nervous

systems to create safety for

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other people to build connections.

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For example, when you have a.

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Children, right?

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Little kiddos or a baby.

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Your nervous system is trying

to co-regulate with them

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of creating safety, right?

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The ooh, like the oohs and ahs and eye

contact and the rocking, you're trying to

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soo them, and that's their nervous, your,

your nervous system communicating to their

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nervous system, safety and connection.

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So even, even in my therapy office,

if I were to meet somebody the first

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time and I was really harsh or really

standoffish, or even if my office space

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was super messy, somebody's nervous

system might be like, Ooh, I don't

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feel quite great about sitting here

and having a vulnerable conversation.

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So their, my nervous system and my

space needs to create a sense of

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safety for their nervous system, for

therapy to even start working at all.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Interesting.

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Erika Behunin: So the va, the vagus nerve

is so powerful, the theory that I apply.

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For and therapy is called

the polyvagal theory.

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That your listeners don't have

to remember that, but there's a

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lot more research going on behind

that now and it's fascinating.

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So we'll go back to our ladder now,

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Okay.

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Erika Behunin: the vagus nerve, so the

bottom of the ladder, the fancy, official

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fancy name for that would be dorsal vagal.

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You don't have to remember that the

top of the ladder is ventral vagal.

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That has to do with how it's

positioned in this little nucleus

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in the bottom of your brainstem.

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But sometimes people like to call

that ventral vagal and dorsal vagal.

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I think it's simple.

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And what I do with most of my clients

is the top of the ladder is safety and

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connection, also known as ventral vagal.

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And the bottom of the ladder is more

of that shut down depression feelings,

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and that's the dorsal vagus response.

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So.

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We, we want to spend most of our

time at the top of our ladder.

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That is where re rest and digest happens.

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That is where, at the top of

our ladder we have, and you can

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think of it as different flavors.

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Sometimes maybe we're really just content

and have these feelings of being at ease.

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Other times it could be we're

really excited about something

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right at the top of our ladder.

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We problem solve better, we

communicate more clearly.

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We're able to connect with

others more effectively.

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And then as we go down our ladder,

and, and I always like to point out

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to Alex and I tell my clients this, we

are gonna go down your ladder sometimes

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every day because we want to expand kind

of our resiliency of handling stress.

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Of, yeah, we're gonna, we're,

'cause we have a nervous system.

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We can't take that away.

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I might've been driving to work

today and almost got cut off and

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I, my heart rate changed right?

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Because my sympathetic

nervous system was activated.

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I wouldn't want that to go away.

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It, it keeps us safe, but we want to learn

how to, when we go down our ladder, how

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do we move back up to the top of this

space of safety and regulation of feeling

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like, yeah, things are hard right now.

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Things are kind of

stressful and I've got it.

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I can manage this.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: I feel

like this is the approach that I

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has been missing from what I've

learned about nervous system is

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like, it's okay to go down into

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Erika Behunin: Yes,

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Alex | Mindful with Media: that.

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What is it?

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The

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Erika Behunin: the sympathetic

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Alex | Mindful with Media: that's

actually healthy and good, and

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how to learn how to go back up.

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Erika Behunin: yes.

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Yeah.

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And there's so many tools to

recognize, okay, how was I triggered?

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How come I went down?

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And then building this capacity to move

back up so we don't stay stuck, but we're

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gonna go up and down our whole lives.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

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Erika Behunin: We just don't

wanna stay stuck in the middle

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to bottom of our ladder.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Totally.

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Totally.

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So how, yeah, how do we come back up?

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Erika Behunin: Yeah.

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So,

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so can I explain one more thing and then

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah, totally.

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Totally.

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Yeah.

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Erika Behunin: back up?

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So one, I think it's important to

remember and understand is when we

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go, why this whole ladder analogy

is part of why it is effective is

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we, before we hit the bottom of the

ladder of that depression shut down,

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dissociation our nervous system first.

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And sometimes it can be

super fast for people.

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It, it goes through the

sympathetic activation.

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So it's like a hierarchy.

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So you're going to some, some people

might be like, oh, I go to the bottom

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of my ladder really fast, but they still

go through their nervous system quickly.

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Assesses is a fight or flight do.

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So they still have some

sympathetic energy activated.

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They might have that little bit of like

stress and anxiousness that some people

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goes down super fast and the same way

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Alex | Mindful with Media:

you always go through the

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Erika Behunin: you always go

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Alex | Mindful with Media: you

get down to that depressive state.

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Interesting.

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Erika Behunin: Then coming back up,

you always go through the sympathetic

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again before getting to the top.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Huh.

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Erika Behunin: So why that's

helpful is say we're in the

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bottom, totally shut down.

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If I am at the bottom feeling really

hopeless, really down it's, it's going to

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be hard for me to be like, yeah, I'm gonna

go out with a bunch of friends tonight.

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I know that will help

me feel better, right?

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Because my system is in

this shut down state.

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So I need to find tools to slowly

build my way back up, and then I'll

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get increased energy as I do that.

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So even the sympathetic energy is

not always bad quotes bad, right?

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Like sometimes we have this negative

connotation with it, and sometimes it is.

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It's like it's not healthy to be in that

chronic state of anxiety, but you think

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of maybe somebody doing a big competition.

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You know, or the Olympics or a

musical event, you're gonna go

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down your ladder a little bit.

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You're gonna have some sympathetic energy.

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You're gonna have a little butterflies.

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Maybe you're, you're gonna notice your

heart beating a little bit faster.

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Sometimes.

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That sympathetic energy can

be really helpful and useful.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: I remember the

first time I made that connection that

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it wasn't all bad was almost a year ago.

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My husband had a seizure and

we were staying at an Airbnb.

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Basically just like the

situation felt really chaotic.

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And I remember feeling so tired, like

before he started having this seizure,

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just we were almost had our kids in bed.

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We were like just putting them to

bed and I was ready to just crash.

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And then as he started having the

seizure, I went into, what is it?

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Sympathetic, the sympathetic,

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Erika Behunin: Mm-hmm.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Phase.

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And I was able to take care of

him and take care of my kids and

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do those things that 30 minutes

earlier I had no energy to do.

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And that was the first time I

was like, oh, I'm grateful for

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that part of my nervous system.

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Like I helped me like survive that

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Erika Behunin: Yeah, yeah.

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That is such a as hard as I can imagine,

that being, that's a very good example

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of being grateful for your nervous

system functioning as it should.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

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Erika Behunin: Right.

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So, and part of this work too, is

changing our relationship with how

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we view that sympathetic middle to

bottom of our ladder as, as kind of

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almost like, oh my gosh, thank you.

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You are, you're trying to keep me safe.

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Is, is creating this

almost type of friendship.

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Of changing our relationship with

the, instead of this big thing to

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fear when we notice these feelings

of anxiety, 'cause even feelings of

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anxiety can make anxiety worse, right?

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Oh my gosh, why is my

heart racing so hard?

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I have this pressure, I feel dizzy

or feelings of, if we're in the

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shutdown phase, that dissociation

can feel scary for people.

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This almost numbness this

feeling of like, I'm not here.

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Those can feel very scary to people,

but when we can have an understanding

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of this is your nervous system doing

its job, it, it, it can take away

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the shame that often a lot of people

feel like, what is wrong with me?

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Why am I constantly on edge?

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Why am I constantly irritable?

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Why am I always tired?

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should right?

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I think this is common with a lot of

women and moms like, I should, right?

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Shoulds, I should be enjoying this more.

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I should be loving having kids.

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I should be grateful that

I'm home, but I'm not.

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Right?

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I feel stuck.

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I.

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It helps understand your nervous

system is involved in all of this.

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Interesting.

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Yeah.

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'cause I totally hear those

things that you're saying.

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Yeah.

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But there, yeah, the shame

about feeling dysregulated.

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Erika Behunin: mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So before we kind of go into tools to work

back up our ladder, I, for your listeners,

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I think it's helpful to start thinking

of times where you could resonate of,

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yeah, I was in the middle of my ladder.

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Start noticing what did

that feel like in your body?

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So, Alex, when you're in the middle

of your ladder, when, when you're

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feeling more anxious, what, what

does your body feel like there?

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Does it feel buzzy?

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Does it feel on edge?

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Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah,

definitely like, like faster heart rate.

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I feel like I can feel like

the, yeah, like faster maybe.

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Yeah.

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Buzzy, like you say, I

feel tightness like a.

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Yeah, tightness.

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And I don't know if that's like

from that or me, like subconsciously

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resisting it, but like tightness

almost like harder to breathe, like

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harder to get like those deep breaths.

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Those are the things that come to mind.

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Erika Behunin: Thank you for sharing that.

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Why that's so crucial is because we

wanna start learning our own states.

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So we wanna start noticing,

oh my goodness, I think

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I'm going down my ladder.

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I feel, I feel actuated.

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I'm feeling that tightness in my chest.

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Some people it's like I feel

really tense in my shoulders.

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It could be the buzzy feeling, it

could be the pit in your stomach.

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So then you wanna start noticing

how you feel in the shutdown phase.

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That can be really heavy.

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It can feel lethargic.

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You wanna start noticing what type of

thoughts do I have in these states?

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So when people are more in the middle

of their ladder, this sympathetic state,

386

:

you're, you might be more on edge, right?

387

:

So maybe a partner comes home at

the end of the day or your kids

388

:

say something and you're like.

389

:

Your system is on edge, it is

in this threat protection state.

390

:

So it might be internalizing

and perceiving other people's

391

:

tones of voices different.

392

:

You might be perceiving something

in a negative way that was

393

:

actually kind of neutral.

394

:

The bottom.

395

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: this with

clients with like business stuff.

396

:

Like they'll post something or put

out an offer and depending on what

397

:

state they're in, they perceive

responses either as people like

398

:

them and they like the work they're

doing and they wanna buy from them.

399

:

Or they're like, nobody likes me, like

nobody wants to buy what I have to offer.

400

:

I don't know.

401

:

I That's interesting thinking

about this in that, that space.

402

:

Erika Behunin: Yes.

403

:

That's a great example.

404

:

And so good to be able to like realize

how you can apply this, these principles

405

:

into every aspect of your life.

406

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

407

:

Erika Behunin: the with that too.

408

:

It's not to say, oh, we should

never have these thoughts, right?

409

:

It's just noticing what state am am I in?

410

:

Because that influences

feelings and thoughts.

411

:

So when you go to the bottom of your

ladder in this shutdown state, and, and

412

:

I have been here where, and I know all of

this stuff and talk about this stuff, and

413

:

I will feel feeling sometimes and have

these thoughts of it is never gonna get

414

:

better, right in the bottom of our ladder.

415

:

We feel more hopeless.

416

:

And, and why I'm emphasizing

that is it feels so real.

417

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

418

:

Erika Behunin: thoughts

of it won't get better.

419

:

I'll never figure this out.

420

:

There's nobody to help me.

421

:

And you start wanting to notice

what are my thoughts in this space?

422

:

And just holding space for that of,

okay, I notice I'm having these thoughts.

423

:

I know I'm kind of in the

bottom of my ladder right now.

424

:

I can't trust every thought

I have in this state.

425

:

That's really important because when we

start to believe some of those negative

426

:

thinking errors that we're having in those

states, whether it's the middle or bottom

427

:

of our ladder, then that we can get stuck

because then that sends more of a threat

428

:

message to our nervous system and we

have more difficult feelings around that.

429

:

And that kind of just, we get

stuck in this kind of negative,

430

:

negative cycle and that feels

threatening to our nervous system.

431

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Interesting.

432

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

433

:

So I encourage people to just kind of be

open to the, this idea of like, how does

434

:

my body feel in these different places?

435

:

Start brainstorming, huh?

436

:

When was, I felt like I went to the

middle of my ladder this week, and then

437

:

you wanna start looking for triggers?

438

:

What brings me down my ladder?

439

:

Is it certain places I go, is

it having a really messy house?

440

:

Is it having to make

dinner every single night?

441

:

Is it certain people that I'm around

that seems to be triggering this?

442

:

Sometimes we'll be able

to know what triggers us.

443

:

So I love the, I love the two

words, compassion and curiosity.

444

:

So when we're kind of being curious

about this and why, why like

445

:

those words as they create safety,

446

:

so the nervous system, right?

447

:

We we're not, we don't wanna have urgency

feels threatening to the nervous system.

448

:

So when and change, right?

449

:

So we can just be curious of, I

wonder what made me feel activated,

450

:

what brought me down my ladder?

451

:

And again, sometimes we'll be able

to pinpoint it and sometimes we

452

:

won't be able to, and that's okay.

453

:

Because that's also part of our

nervous system is it picks up on.

454

:

Situations in our environment on other

people, but also even within our body.

455

:

Like something might feel off in

our body and it can send a message

456

:

of threat to our nervous system.

457

:

It could be something that we

actually don't remember that felt

458

:

threatening at one point, and somehow

it made an association, right?

459

:

Maybe there was a certain season

or a smell that something really

460

:

hard happened that created this

association within our brain, and then

461

:

our nervous system picks up on that.

462

:

That same smell maybe.

463

:

And sometimes maybe we, we can connect

the dots and sometimes maybe we don't,

464

:

but all of a sudden I feel like I've

gone down my ladder and I'm feeling super

465

:

anxious, like I might have a panic attack.

466

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah,

I've totally had that happen where

467

:

I'm like, why am I so anxious?

468

:

And like, what have I been thinking about?

469

:

Like, what have I, is there something

I need to do that I've forgotten?

470

:

And like sometimes I can't figure out

like why I am so, yeah, like panicky,

471

:

Erika Behunin: Mm-hmm.

472

:

Yeah.

473

:

And so I wanna normalize that like

sometimes you will be able to figure

474

:

it out with that, like just being

curious and then the compassion

475

:

comes in of like, I don't know.

476

:

Right?

477

:

You and I love how you said,

I asked myself that question,

478

:

like, what was I just thinking?

479

:

Or what just happened?

480

:

Those are really valuable questions

and sometimes you won't know.

481

:

And then that's when you want to

provide almost safety and compassion

482

:

for yourself of trying some grounding

techniques of maybe hand over your

483

:

heart, taking a few deep breaths

484

:

and even sending the message

of like, I'm safe, right?

485

:

Even just telling yourself

that I am safe looking.

486

:

I'm here now, right?

487

:

Sometimes our, when we're triggered,

it takes us back to the past, even if

488

:

we can't quite pinpoint what it was.

489

:

So we wanna try to ground ourselves

in the here and now and send messages

490

:

of safety to our nervous system.

491

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: hmm.

492

:

Erika Behunin: I can tolerate

this uncomfortable feeling.

493

:

That's another one that can

be really, send a message of

494

:

safety to your nervous system.

495

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I love that

one because like you say, I think it's

496

:

easy, all the things that I've seen on

social media about nervous system to just

497

:

feel like something's wrong with you.

498

:

Like I.

499

:

I'm not supposed to feel this way.

500

:

I'm not supposed to be triggered

by this, but I love that.

501

:

What was it?

502

:

I,

503

:

Erika Behunin: I can, I can

tolerate this uncomfortable feeling.

504

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: yeah.

505

:

I can tolerate this uncomfortable feeling.

506

:

I, that is so powerful.

507

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

508

:

That, and that sends a message

of safety to your nervous system.

509

:

And part part of when we go down our

ladder is we can, we can have this belief

510

:

and, and the more people practice this,

of knowing I can get back up my ladder.

511

:

And therapy can be so helpful for that

because especially with people who

512

:

have histories of trauma, there's a

lot of work that goes into that because

513

:

their nervous system is, is truly

working so hard to keep them safe.

514

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

515

:

Erika Behunin: It can, it, there can

be a lot of tools and, and work to

516

:

be done to help them get back up.

517

:

So I don't wanna say this

like, oh, it's just easy.

518

:

You just move down and you move

back up your ladder and you're fine.

519

:

It's, there's a lot that can go into

this, but it can also, you just start with

520

:

just simple practices and, and gaining

increased awareness and understanding of

521

:

your body and your mind system together.

522

:

Like, where am I, what's going

on with, with my body right now?

523

:

What am I feeling?

524

:

But first we, we need to acknowledge,

it's okay if you're the, in the

525

:

middle of the bottom of your ladder.

526

:

And when I say that, it might not feel

okay, but to be able to move back up,

527

:

we need to accept where we're at first.

528

:

And that's where that saying, I can

handle this uncomfortable feeling.

529

:

I notice I'm at the middle

or bottom of my ladder.

530

:

And then we want to

practice asking ourselves.

531

:

So first we kind of

acknowledge where we're at.

532

:

We give ourselves compassion.

533

:

This is hard.

534

:

This is a difficult moment.

535

:

Self-compassion is a tool that can

help move us back up our ladder.

536

:

It sends a message of safety to

our brain and activates regions

537

:

in our brain associated with

that rest and digestive response.

538

:

So a simple self-compassion exercise

could be placing your hand over your

539

:

heart, giving yourself like a soft

self hug, rubbing your arms and just

540

:

saying, this is a difficult moment.

541

:

This is hard.

542

:

This is part of this human experience

543

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

544

:

Erika Behunin: and I know it

won't stay like this forever.

545

:

Even though it might feel

that way, depending what

546

:

people might be going through.

547

:

And another, a few other tools to

move back up our ladder is we can use

548

:

our thoughts to help us move back up,

but we also really wanna use, create

549

:

a sense of safety within our body.

550

:

So we can do that by.

551

:

Movement.

552

:

So this, this also is a good idea to know,

okay, am I in the middle of my ladder?

553

:

If I'm having all this anger or

anxious energy, I might wanna

554

:

do bigger movements, right?

555

:

I might wanna run, I might wanna

go for a longer fast, swift walk.

556

:

I might do some jumping jacks.

557

:

I might turn on loud.

558

:

Music and dance.

559

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

560

:

Erika Behunin: Those are ways

to dispel this built up energy,

561

:

this sympathetic energy.

562

:

If I'm at the bottom of my ladder turning

on loud music or going for a run, my

563

:

system is gonna say, no, that's too hard.

564

:

But that's too, like, that's impossible.

565

:

I can hardly move.

566

:

So that would be more gentle movement.

567

:

Some a, a very slow walk, some gentle

stretching, simple yoga even, even

568

:

the type of music we listen to, right?

569

:

If I'm in the middle of my

ladder, I might listen to more.

570

:

Loud, intense music, or the

bottom of my ladder, I might

571

:

have more mellow soft music.

572

:

I'll encourage people to

make different playlists.

573

:

So start getting to know yourself.

574

:

Like what do I like to listen to?

575

:

What helps me feel better

when I'm in different states?

576

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: So the

idea of like if you're at the bottom.

577

:

Is to kind of like slowly move yourself

back up with gentle things, and then

578

:

will you have to do more intense

things to move through that sympathetic

579

:

state, or does it kind of depend?

580

:

Erika Behunin: I think it

happens naturally and you'll

581

:

kind of get to know yourself.

582

:

Once you start enhancing your

awareness about this, you'll start

583

:

noticing like, okay, I'm feeling

like I have more energy now.

584

:

I actually feel like

going on a longer walk.

585

:

Sometimes that can ha that from the

bottom to the top can happen very

586

:

fairly quickly for some people,

but it really depends what it is.

587

:

It depends how long people have been stuck

in the middle to bottom of their ladder.

588

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

589

:

Erika Behunin: But you will, you will

feel an increase of energy as you

590

:

go, but it doesn't happen like this.

591

:

You need to slowly work

your way up to that.

592

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Interesting.

593

:

Erika Behunin: Does that

answer your question?

594

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah, for sure.

595

:

Yeah, that's helpful.

596

:

Erika Behunin: Other things

that, can you, you wanna think

597

:

of like involving your senses?

598

:

Right?

599

:

So some people, cold temperatures

work, that's something people

600

:

probably see frequently

601

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah, like

ice on the, the vagal nerve or something.

602

:

Erika Behunin: Yes, yes.

603

:

You can do just ice cubes and

you can rub them on your neck.

604

:

You can rub 'em on your arms.

605

:

I just have this ice roller

from Amazon and my kids love it.

606

:

I use it.

607

:

So if you're feeling, I mean, this isn't

to like solve a problem, it's just to

608

:

help create safety in your nervous system.

609

:

It's help to create regulation,

so then you can keep using more

610

:

tools to move back up the ladder.

611

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: That's such

a helpful perspective because I think

612

:

sometimes I do think that like if I

do X, then I will suddenly be healed

613

:

and nothing will feel wrong anymore.

614

:

You know?

615

:

Like I'll feel amazing again.

616

:

So I think that's helpful that this is

a tool to get you to start moving up and

617

:

then you can use more and more tools to

618

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah, exactly.

619

:

Mm-hmm.

620

:

so music, things with smell.

621

:

I love grapefruit.

622

:

Like an essential oil.

623

:

And that's something you can

take in your purse or wherever

624

:

you go or have in your car.

625

:

And you can even just, the smell

is powerful and kind of shifting

626

:

this nervous system state, right?

627

:

Get another tool.

628

:

And, and even in temperatures, like, and

it depends what you have time for, right?

629

:

That's why the ice roller or even

those facial mts that are are

630

:

lavender or rose water, those, I

have one in my purse and sometimes

631

:

it's just a little spritz, right?

632

:

This is just simple, simple tool.

633

:

It is not like, oh, this

will cure everything.

634

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

635

:

Yeah.

636

:

Erika Behunin: A cold shower

or a hot shower, a cozy

637

:

blanket, a hot drink, right?

638

:

These are little things that

can help start slowly shifting

639

:

a state and creating safety.

640

:

Touch, safe, touch, right?

641

:

Or rocking.

642

:

You notice like when you had

babies, you rocks them, right?

643

:

You swayed.

644

:

So even say you're standing in line

at the grocery store and it's taking

645

:

forever, and you're frustrated, you

can just gently sway back and forth

646

:

and people hardly will even notice.

647

:

And that's creating this,

this feeling of safety and

648

:

soothing in your nervous system.

649

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Okay.

650

:

That's such a fun one.

651

:

Erika Behunin: using other

helps you regulate, right?

652

:

And then that, that then once your body's

starting to feel safe, it's easier to then

653

:

move into some thought work, to feel safe.

654

:

Okay?

655

:

Can I challenge some of

my thoughts right now?

656

:

It makes it easier to problem

solve, easier to communicate.

657

:

other,

658

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: what I found.

659

:

I feel like.

660

:

In the world of coaching and even in

myself, I wanna go straight there.

661

:

I wanna go straight to the thought

work, and I feel like this is the

662

:

missing piece for so many people

is the, the body regulation first

663

:

and then into the thought work.

664

:

Erika Behunin: it's so important.

665

:

And part of that's allowing yourself

to be where you are while you're there.

666

:

And then the, the important

question, what do I need?

667

:

Right?

668

:

And so that's learning.

669

:

Once you start learning your states, like,

how do I respond when I'm in a shutdown?

670

:

And, and there might be different tools

you'll use at different times, so maybe

671

:

I try the ice roller or going for a walk

and it still just didn't shift anything.

672

:

Usually you want it to slightly make

a shift, sometimes it might not.

673

:

But then that's where we hold

space for that and self-compassion.

674

:

It's okay, I can be here right now.

675

:

I know this won't last forever.

676

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I can

tolerate this uncomfortable feeling.

677

:

Erika Behunin: That's one of my favorite,

one of my, and part of, part of why,

678

:

another part of why that's so important

is when we can fill, when we can fill

679

:

and allow these uncomfortable feelings

to move through us and be with us, it

680

:

creates safety to the nervous system.

681

:

Because when we're resisting and avoiding

and doing everything we can to try

682

:

not to fill this feeling, our nervous

system then learns that's not safe.

683

:

I can't fill that.

684

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

685

:

Erika Behunin: So then we stay more

stuck, more activated, where when we

686

:

can allow ourselves to fill it and

have it, hope it move through us, we

687

:

send the message of like, yeah, this

is, I can, this is uncomfortable.

688

:

This is hard, and I'm

capable of, of feeling it.

689

:

I'm capable of handling it.

690

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

That's so helpful.

691

:

I love that perspective

692

:

Erika Behunin: and another one of my

favorites, Alex, is called glimmers,

693

:

to help us move back up our ladder.

694

:

So we have triggers that we can

start noticing what moves us down.

695

:

Our ladder glimmers are these

small micro moments of joy.

696

:

So they are these little moments through

our day that we can notice and savor.

697

:

So savoring is this practice of

taking it all in, of taking 20

698

:

to 30 seconds to truly enjoy the

moment to fill it with your senses.

699

:

So maybe it's watching the sunset and you

stop and you smell and you engage your

700

:

senses and you soak it up, or the first

sip of your favorite drink or cuddling

701

:

with a pet or with a child, or going

to, you know, your favorite restaurant.

702

:

You're savoring these little moments.

703

:

That creates safety to

your nervous system.

704

:

It helps offset our brain's

natural negativity bias.

705

:

So we're just, we're wired to

see what could go wrong, right?

706

:

Our nervous system is constantly surveying

our environment, trying to keep us safe.

707

:

So we're, of course, we're gonna see

the negative things and the bad things

708

:

and the, all the potential bad things,

but we want to help train our brain too,

709

:

to see these little beautiful moments.

710

:

This is one of my favorite practices

because we can do this even when

711

:

really hard things are happening.

712

:

So I'm sure you've worked with women

where like we get tired of hearing

713

:

this, like, oh, be grateful, right?

714

:

This to this idea of toxic positivity.

715

:

This is completely opposite of that.

716

:

It's like, yeah, really hard things are

happening and we hold space for that and

717

:

grief, and can we look for these small,

tiny, micro moments of joy in our day?

718

:

And, and that's a powerful way

to shift our nervous system

719

:

out of these stuck states.

720

:

Like.

721

:

Anxiety and depression.

722

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: That it's

not pretending nothing's wrong or

723

:

pretending things aren't hard, but

actually embracing that, allowing that,

724

:

and noticing these small good things too.

725

:

Erika Behunin: Yes.

726

:

Yeah, exactly.

727

:

And, and you, you could

do this on your own.

728

:

Right?

729

:

There's a, another little saying that I

love is starting the day saying, today

730

:

I will notice one small, beautiful

moment that I've never noticed before.

731

:

And then at the end of the day, you sit in

intention to recall that and share that.

732

:

So whether you do it on your own and

make a notes tab in your phone, or

733

:

you get a family member involved, and

then at the end of the day you share

734

:

what your small, beautiful moment was.

735

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

736

:

And then it, it trains your

brain to look for those.

737

:

Erika Behunin: Yes.

738

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I love that.

739

:

Erika Behunin: exactly.

740

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

That's really cool.

741

:

Erika Behunin: So.

742

:

Help me, Alex, what makes, what

questions do you have with this ladder?

743

:

What do you think your

listeners would want clarifying,

744

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

745

:

This was so helpful.

746

:

IL like I said at the beginning, you

really do have a gift of teaching things

747

:

so simply and making it so digestible.

748

:

So I thought this was fascinating.

749

:

It might be helpful to, maybe to just

go through like one specific example

750

:

of like a question that someone

had and like kind of how you would.

751

:

Walk them through.

752

:

Let me see if I can find some

of the examples I sent you.

753

:

Erika Behunin: I'll pull that up too.

754

:

And as we were just talking, I,

I thought of an, a couple of my

755

:

other favorite little techniques

to shift our state slightly.

756

:

And again, remember, this isn't

gonna just, this isn't a magic wand.

757

:

These are small shifts, but.

758

:

So deep breathing, which we

hear about all the time, right?

759

:

But deep belly rests really

help send a message of safety.

760

:

So even if you're, whether you're

at work or you're with kids and you

761

:

are noticing, okay, I'm starting

to go down my ladder, I'm feeling

762

:

activated, you start having this

aware self-awareness within your body.

763

:

I'm getting tense.

764

:

My heart feels like it's

going beating faster.

765

:

You practice some deep breaths

sometimes, whether it's yourself or

766

:

even with a kiddo, it can be hard.

767

:

Like, have you ever told your kids, oh,

let's take some deep breaths, honey.

768

:

And whenever I tell my that, they look

at me like, I don't wanna breathe.

769

:

No.

770

:

But as they get older, it,

it gets easier to do that.

771

:

But having, taking a sigh, so a deep sigh.

772

:

So start noticing within yourself

when you just automatically do this

773

:

or those in your family, or even

just when you're out and about.

774

:

We are sighing frequently, and

that's our, our nervous system's

775

:

natural way of trying to regulate.

776

:

So we, when you hear like maybe your

family member sigh, you're like, oh,

777

:

they're, you know, sometimes you'll

hear somebody sigh and say, what?

778

:

Are you okay?

779

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I remember

all the time my mom growing up would

780

:

sigh and I was like, what did I do?

781

:

What's wrong?

782

:

Like, what's, it was

very triggering for me.

783

:

Erika Behunin: Oh yeah.

784

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

no, I'm just breathing.

785

:

I'm fine.

786

:

Like, okay.

787

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah, I will, I will

do some big sigh sometimes, and

788

:

my kids will say the same thing.

789

:

It's like, oh, sometimes I don't

even realize that I'm doing it.

790

:

And it's our body's way of trying to

regulate, of trying to recalibrate.

791

:

But, but try that.

792

:

If you're like, I'm having a hard

time breathing, it's like, let's

793

:

just take a si singing or humming.

794

:

Do you ever feel better after you sing

or you blast the music in your car?

795

:

This can be helpful to try to

help your kids regulate as well.

796

:

That's why dance parties

and music is powerful.

797

:

It's

798

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: does it.

799

:

Singing some do something with the vagus

800

:

Erika Behunin: mm-hmm.

801

:

So it stimulates your vagus nerve.

802

:

Your vagus nerve runs through.

803

:

Your throat and it stimulates

the, when you're seeing the

804

:

chord stimulate your vagus nerve.

805

:

The same thing with deep

diaphragmatic breathing.

806

:

Your vagus nerve gets stimulated

because it goes through your diaphragm.

807

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Cool.

808

:

That's so

809

:

Erika Behunin: So that's like, and singing

or humming or garing like garing water,

810

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Oh,

811

:

Erika Behunin: it's

coning your vagus nerve.

812

:

It's helping strengthen your vagus nerve,

which helps create more of a sense of

813

:

safety of this rest and digest it cre it

expands your capacity to manage stress.

814

:

You're building resiliency.

815

:

So these are, it's so fascinating,

so simple and it's free right?

816

:

Singing, dance, arguing.

817

:

These are, these are great ways

to like tone your vagus nerve.

818

:

So it's fascinating.

819

:

Okay.

820

:

Do you have a specific question in

mind you think would be most helpful?

821

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

should we do that last one?

822

:

I have a client who wants to enjoy her

business more and not feel so stressed and

823

:

tense all the time about it, but she still

wants to see results and was asking about

824

:

how this is related to her nervous system

and some tips to help like that might

825

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah, let's

explore that for a little bit.

826

:

So when I first read that, right,

and this is where therapy can be so

827

:

helpful for people because you dive in

deep to all the pieces of the puzzle.

828

:

But when I first read that, I hear

more of this state of middle of

829

:

the ladder anxiousness, right?

830

:

Kind of just

831

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Totally.

832

:

Yeah.

833

:

Erika Behunin: I'm sure sometimes she dips

down to the bottom of her ladder like we

834

:

all do of, sometimes it might just feel

too overwhelming and you just kind of

835

:

feel like shutting down and giving up.

836

:

But when I read that, it just

feels like this constant.

837

:

Stress state.

838

:

So what I, I would first

pay attention to that.

839

:

Right.

840

:

Get, get familiar with, with her body.

841

:

Okay.

842

:

Where do I feel it in my body?

843

:

What about this?

844

:

Just again, be like this

curious, compassionate detective.

845

:

What days do I feel more triggered?

846

:

Right.

847

:

Is it when, and, and

just be really curious.

848

:

It could be a multiple things I'll

share for me, when I am interrupted

849

:

frequently, if I'm trying to do more work

from home, that feels threatening to my

850

:

nervous system, I get more triggered.

851

:

I go down my ladder more If

I'm frequently interrupted.

852

:

Some people's totally fine with that.

853

:

So I start being curious about what

part I'm just reading it again to make

854

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: what

specifically is triggering?

855

:

Yeah.

856

:

Erika Behunin: If she, if she can tell

like what specifically is triggering.

857

:

Sometimes another clue to get curious

about is, am I trying to do too much?

858

:

Which I think is frequently

the case for a lot of women.

859

:

So those that could be having, you wanna

kind of look at these different patterns.

860

:

What do I really value?

861

:

You could get clear on core values.

862

:

What do I need to let go of?

863

:

What, what's something I could delegate?

864

:

What is something that

only I really can do?

865

:

So there, there would be some

thought work with that too.

866

:

I, I imagine like some beliefs

around business or around goals.

867

:

Lots.

868

:

All of us have some negative thinking.

869

:

Heres, right?

870

:

So sometimes if we're putting way too

much pressure on ourselves or we have our

871

:

whole list of shoulds, or we're kind of

taking part in black or white thinking we

872

:

we're, we're by our thoughts and some of

our beliefs we're actually triggering our

873

:

nervous system and moving down our ladder.

874

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm,

875

:

Erika Behunin: we trying to get,

again, like I said, way too much done?

876

:

Are our expectations not aligning with

what we truly have the time to do?

877

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

878

:

Erika Behunin: So all of

879

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

that's what I, yeah.

880

:

See a lot is like they want to take

a break from work and just spend

881

:

time with their family or just doing

something to recharge themselves.

882

:

And then they almost like can't

relax 'cause they're like, Ugh.

883

:

Like I'm supposed I, there's all these

things I could be doing in my business.

884

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah, I think

that's such a great point.

885

:

And I love that you brought that up

because sometimes when our nervous system

886

:

gets so used to being in a certain state,

887

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

888

:

Erika Behunin: start to try to

move out of that state, right?

889

:

Or go sit still our nervous system,

even though our, we cognitively can

890

:

know, okay, this is good for us.

891

:

I need to make these changes.

892

:

Our nervous system can throw up red

flags and say, no, no, no, no, no.

893

:

This feels threatening, right?

894

:

Because we're not used to this.

895

:

So sitting still, when you're

so used to going, going, going.

896

:

Can feel triggering.

897

:

So if that were the case, I really

would encourage people to, again,

898

:

this goes back to tolerating these

uncomfortable feelings, right?

899

:

You have to know what you

value and what your goal is.

900

:

Okay?

901

:

I wanna be able to spend more

quality time with my kids and play

902

:

this game and not feel so anxious.

903

:

You're gonna feel anxious until

you get to that point, right?

904

:

So you're gonna be like, and sometimes

some people just have to set a timer.

905

:

Okay, I'm gonna spend 10 minutes, right?

906

:

Start small, 15 minutes playing this game.

907

:

And I'm just gonna notice, right?

908

:

This is a mindfulness skill.

909

:

I'm gonna notice the thoughts and

feelings and sensations that come up.

910

:

And I'm gonna, I'm gonna

wanna go get up and move.

911

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yes.

912

:

Erika Behunin: I'm

committed to this, right?

913

:

I've committed to this action of

sitting still or being present with

914

:

my kids, and these thoughts are gonna

come and I'm gonna just let them go.

915

:

I'm gonna witness them.

916

:

Oh, there you are.

917

:

Brain.

918

:

Yep.

919

:

You want me to get up?

920

:

This feels really uncomfortable.

921

:

Oh, I can handle uncomfortable feelings.

922

:

It's practicing, where

do I feel it in my body?

923

:

Oh my gosh.

924

:

Like, you know that feeling that

just makes you squirm, but you're

925

:

retraining your nervous system and

your brain teaching it that this

926

:

is safe, this doesn't feel safe.

927

:

I feel really triggered right now, and

I'm gonna stick with it because it, it

928

:

aligns with my long term goals and values.

929

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I love that,

that it, it won't feel safe at first.

930

:

I think people picture like, I'm

gonna take all this time to myself

931

:

or be present with my kids, and it

sounds ideal and it sounds wonderful.

932

:

And then like you say,

they're like panicky.

933

:

It's like it doesn't feel good.

934

:

And so retraining your, your body to feel

comfortable with that and to allow it to

935

:

be uncomfortable until it is comfortable.

936

:

I love that.

937

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

938

:

And that's, again, that's retraining your

brain and your nervous system, and it's

939

:

also building resiliency within yourself.

940

:

It's a superpower to be able to be

uncomfortable as long as, right.

941

:

And that's where some people are like,

well, what if it's really not safe?

942

:

You would know if it's really not safe.

943

:

Right.

944

:

So it's never like saying, oh, go

do this truly dangerous thing to see

945

:

if you can get comfortable with it.

946

:

No, I just wanna like

have that disclaimer.

947

:

It's, it is, one analogy that I love is if

you ever had one of those sour warheads,

948

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

949

:

Erika Behunin: so when you

first put it in, right?

950

:

Unless you really, really love them,

but some people are like, Ooh, yuck.

951

:

I can't, ooh.

952

:

Like I wanna spit this thing out.

953

:

Right?

954

:

It's uncomfortable it, but what

happens when you stick with it?

955

:

And what does it turn into?

956

:

Not this sour, terrible

thing, but a sweet candy.

957

:

Right.

958

:

So that's, it's kind of a helpful

analogy of when we're trying to

959

:

retrain our nervous system or do hard

things, there's gonna be a part of

960

:

us that just wants to stop because

it's like, this is too sour, this is

961

:

too hard, this is too uncomfortable.

962

:

But if we stick with it.

963

:

It can turn into something sweet.

964

:

Right.

965

:

So for that example of like sitting,

being able to then be more present

966

:

with your kids, that's, that's

like your long-term value, right?

967

:

That's the sweet,

968

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: I

love your approach so much.

969

:

I just thinking about, yeah, like with

kids too, with like their anxiety.

970

:

I think it's so easy.

971

:

You know, I think as a society

we're a lot better at allowing,

972

:

like, talking about allowing all

emotions and like letting kids feel

973

:

their feelings and things like that.

974

:

But I don't know if we really

let them feel the, like,

975

:

anxious, uncomfortable feelings.

976

:

You know?

977

:

It's like maybe we let them feel

sad or cry or things like that, but

978

:

are we letting them be in situations

that make them feel anxious?

979

:

That I don't know.

980

:

And getting comfortable

with those feelings too.

981

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

982

:

I think that's such a great point.

983

:

I think because frequently that's

uncomfortable for the parent.

984

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: Hmm.

985

:

Erika Behunin: And so we don't want

our kids to have that experience.

986

:

And it's such a valuable skill to

learn is how to be uncomfortable

987

:

and to work through that.

988

:

And that builds resiliency.

989

:

And, and again, there's tool like

again, we want people to stay safe,

990

:

but there's nervous system like

this feels threatening, right?

991

:

Alex | Mindful with Media:

The safe space of how

992

:

Erika Behunin: Mm-hmm.

993

:

Yeah.

994

:

Alex | Mindful with Media: And like

building that, that tolerance and

995

:

that could be a whole nother podcast

episode about like teaching kids.

996

:

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

997

:

There's so much there.

998

:

But kids love the warhead analogy too.

999

:

And it, it's fun to have just

different image images sometimes to

:

00:49:11,271 --> 00:49:13,851

get through uncomfortable emotions and

:

00:49:14,151 --> 00:49:14,871

Alex | Mindful with Media: totally.

:

00:49:16,371 --> 00:49:16,461

I

:

00:49:16,461 --> 00:49:16,821

Erika Behunin: What else?

:

00:49:16,881 --> 00:49:18,411

What else with that, with that question?

:

00:49:18,411 --> 00:49:20,061

Did that feel like that might answer the.

:

00:49:20,811 --> 00:49:21,771

Alex | Mindful with Media:

That was very helpful.

:

00:49:21,771 --> 00:49:22,041

Yeah.

:

00:49:22,041 --> 00:49:23,091

I thought that was perfect.

:

00:49:23,181 --> 00:49:23,451

Yeah.

:

00:49:24,021 --> 00:49:30,111

That if it is what you want, which

I, you know, if you want this, you

:

00:49:30,111 --> 00:49:37,191

know, your, your long-term ideal of

having space in your day for calm and

:

00:49:37,191 --> 00:49:41,121

for recharging or being present with

your kids, that's one I hear a lot.

:

00:49:41,676 --> 00:49:41,886

It.

:

00:49:42,036 --> 00:49:45,006

You're gonna have to, it will

feel uncomfortable at first, and

:

00:49:45,006 --> 00:49:47,166

that's okay in practicing that.

:

00:49:47,646 --> 00:49:50,166

Yeah, no, I think that I was

helpful to hear kind of take the

:

00:49:50,166 --> 00:49:53,586

things that you've taught us and

put it in a real life example.

:

00:49:54,891 --> 00:49:57,321

Erika Behunin: and I think frequently

when our nervous systems are more

:

00:49:57,321 --> 00:50:01,071

regulated, which can take time, and

that can be sometimes we underestimate

:

00:50:01,431 --> 00:50:08,541

the value of sleep, of getting enough

sleep of enough time outside of healthy,

:

00:50:08,541 --> 00:50:14,151

nutritious foods, drinking enough water,

all of those things can help sometimes

:

00:50:14,151 --> 00:50:17,061

not feel like we're just staying stuck

in the middle and always on edge.

:

00:50:17,496 --> 00:50:22,566

Because I've been there too of like

so many things can add up that we have

:

00:50:22,566 --> 00:50:26,916

to make an intentional effort to, to

these basics because that actually

:

00:50:26,916 --> 00:50:30,186

helps us stay at the top of our ladder

so then we can problem solve better.

:

00:50:30,186 --> 00:50:33,486

Then we're better able to connect

with whether it's people we

:

00:50:33,486 --> 00:50:37,536

work with or partner or kids

because we're more regulated.

:

00:50:39,141 --> 00:50:39,891

Alex | Mindful with Media: Totally.

:

00:50:39,891 --> 00:50:40,551

Totally.

:

00:50:41,256 --> 00:50:41,466

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

:

00:50:41,496 --> 00:50:45,336

Time and other, other nervous system

regulators that are so helpful and

:

00:50:45,336 --> 00:50:49,116

free is time outside, but also play.

:

00:50:49,686 --> 00:50:49,866

Right.

:

00:50:49,866 --> 00:50:54,246

You notice how kids problem

solve and they, they play.

:

00:50:54,276 --> 00:50:55,206

We are meant to play.

:

00:50:55,206 --> 00:50:59,046

So even as adults we need to find this

kind of sense of wonder of like, awe,

:

00:50:59,976 --> 00:51:04,206

that feeling go like climb a mountain

and it's beautiful and amazing.

:

00:51:04,656 --> 00:51:06,066

That feels good, right?

:

00:51:06,066 --> 00:51:08,106

We can connect like ICU smiling,

:

00:51:08,181 --> 00:51:08,541

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

:

00:51:09,111 --> 00:51:10,701

Erika Behunin: Right now, I'm

like, oh, that sounds nice.

:

00:51:10,701 --> 00:51:13,581

Or a beautiful sunny day or

a day at the beach or a lake.

:

00:51:14,361 --> 00:51:18,321

Those are just, and that kind of is kind

of an exercise going back to the ladder,

:

00:51:18,321 --> 00:51:21,891

thinking of the top of your ladder,

where were moments in your life where

:

00:51:21,891 --> 00:51:27,351

you felt joy, where you felt at ease,

where you felt a sense of contentment.

:

00:51:28,341 --> 00:51:31,311

And sometimes that might be places

where you can't be all the time, right?

:

00:51:31,311 --> 00:51:33,321

Like a top of a mountain or the ocean.

:

00:51:33,781 --> 00:51:35,701

But you wanna kind of

anchor those feelings.

:

00:51:35,731 --> 00:51:38,581

'cause that's your nervous

system feeling safe.

:

00:51:39,661 --> 00:51:41,311

Who, what people are you with?

:

00:51:41,311 --> 00:51:41,881

Who are you with?

:

00:51:41,881 --> 00:51:42,511

What are you doing?

:

00:51:42,511 --> 00:51:44,611

And again, make a list of these things.

:

00:51:44,971 --> 00:51:48,451

It can be in your house, it

can be at the dinner table.

:

00:51:49,246 --> 00:51:49,996

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah.

:

00:51:50,296 --> 00:51:56,506

And it's so interesting 'cause I, I

used to think like work was above play.

:

00:51:56,881 --> 00:52:00,841

Not that play was bad, but like, you gotta

do your work first and then you can play.

:

00:52:01,441 --> 00:52:05,161

And as an adult, your work is never over.

:

00:52:05,161 --> 00:52:10,561

Like there, there's always more to do,

whether you're the primary caregiver or

:

00:52:10,561 --> 00:52:15,031

whether you're a business owner or whether

you work full-time, whatever your life is.

:

00:52:15,031 --> 00:52:19,321

As an adult in our society,

you could always be working.

:

00:52:19,321 --> 00:52:23,341

And so I, that has been a total

mindset shift for me of learning

:

00:52:23,341 --> 00:52:28,901

to prioritize, play, that it's

not lazy, it's not irresponsible,

:

00:52:28,901 --> 00:52:30,851

it's not any of those things.

:

00:52:30,851 --> 00:52:35,561

It actually helps you to perform better

in those other areas of your life.

:

00:52:35,561 --> 00:52:38,411

And that's interesting hearing it

tied to the nervous system too.

:

00:52:40,421 --> 00:52:42,191

Erika Behunin: Yeah, lots

of pieces to the puzzle.

:

00:52:42,821 --> 00:52:43,631

Alex | Mindful with Media: Yeah, totally.

:

00:52:43,631 --> 00:52:43,901

Totally.

:

00:52:44,021 --> 00:52:47,051

Which I think was actually helpful

because like you mentioned,

:

00:52:47,051 --> 00:52:48,851

I, I think it's easy to think.

:

00:52:50,501 --> 00:52:54,611

Like, okay, if you get this ice roller,

then it will solve all your problems

:

00:52:54,611 --> 00:52:56,081

and you'll never be dysregulated again.

:

00:52:56,081 --> 00:52:58,751

But I feel like that was one of my

huge takeaways from this conversation

:

00:52:58,751 --> 00:53:02,741

was, it's okay to go down the ladder.

:

00:53:02,771 --> 00:53:05,591

You're going to go down the

ladder and it's okay if you

:

00:53:05,591 --> 00:53:07,001

don't spike right back up.

:

00:53:07,001 --> 00:53:13,301

It's like, like learning to be

comfortable in those down the letter

:

00:53:13,451 --> 00:53:16,421

and learning how to slowly move back up

:

00:53:16,981 --> 00:53:17,271

Erika Behunin: Yeah.

:

00:53:17,276 --> 00:53:17,396

Yeah.

:

00:53:17,831 --> 00:53:19,001

Alex | Mindful with Media:

without shame around it.

:

00:53:19,541 --> 00:53:21,131

This has been so, so helpful.

:

00:53:21,131 --> 00:53:25,571

Anything else you wanna add before we

kind of get into how people can find you?

:

00:53:27,476 --> 00:53:31,376

Erika Behunin: I'm thinking I kind

of, just to end with what you were

:

00:53:31,376 --> 00:53:35,576

saying, that this takes time to

just soak in this information,

:

00:53:35,786 --> 00:53:37,226

start just being really curious.

:

00:53:37,226 --> 00:53:38,696

Where are you on your ladder?

:

00:53:38,696 --> 00:53:39,866

What does that feel like?

:

00:53:39,866 --> 00:53:39,896

I.

:

00:53:40,391 --> 00:53:45,131

And, and, and looking at your nervous

system as this, this beautiful part of

:

00:53:45,131 --> 00:53:49,961

you that's there to keep you safe, that

it holds stories of your past, but it

:

00:53:49,961 --> 00:53:56,921

can, you can also reshape it and it's,

it's a powerful tool to better understand.

:

00:53:57,431 --> 00:54:01,001

And then also just remembering when

you're down your ladder, not every

:

00:54:01,001 --> 00:54:02,171

thought you have there is true.

:

00:54:02,651 --> 00:54:05,051

I think that's really important,

important to remember.

:

00:54:05,051 --> 00:54:09,281

And if that's one thing you can say, okay,

I can't trust this thought right now.

:

00:54:09,761 --> 00:54:12,761

You can validate and have

compassion for your experience.

:

00:54:13,331 --> 00:54:14,711

You can ask, what do I need?

:

00:54:15,461 --> 00:54:17,801

What's the next best step

I could do right now?

:

00:54:18,301 --> 00:54:20,191

But that will be hopefully a helpful.

:

00:54:21,016 --> 00:54:24,346

Tool to remember is I can't trust

every thought I have in this space.

:

00:54:24,376 --> 00:54:26,356

So, and that, that helps, you know,

like, okay, I don't wanna make a

:

00:54:26,356 --> 00:54:27,676

ton of decisions in this space.

:

00:54:28,126 --> 00:54:32,236

When you're fully activated in an, an

emergency, like the example you gave

:

00:54:32,236 --> 00:54:35,416

shared with your husband, you won't

sit there weighing pros and cons.

:

00:54:35,416 --> 00:54:35,896

Oh, what should I do?

:

00:54:35,896 --> 00:54:36,466

What should I not do?

:

00:54:36,466 --> 00:54:37,936

Like, you, you kicked in.

:

00:54:38,296 --> 00:54:38,506

Right?

:

00:54:38,506 --> 00:54:39,736

So some people worry about that too.

:

00:54:39,736 --> 00:54:43,456

Like, so when I say you don't wanna trust

every, like, make super big decision

:

00:54:43,516 --> 00:54:48,046

decisions when you're in this middle to

bottom of the ladder, if there, if you're

:

00:54:48,286 --> 00:54:53,926

truly under threat or an emergency, you

will, you'll, your system will kick in.

:

00:54:54,316 --> 00:54:55,336

Does that make sense?

:

00:54:55,531 --> 00:54:55,951

Alex | Mindful with Media: totally.

:

00:54:55,951 --> 00:54:57,841

To, it'll be able to make that decision.

:

00:54:57,841 --> 00:54:58,411

It will.

:

00:54:58,726 --> 00:55:02,776

Erika Behunin: Some people get hooked on

that a little bit, but I think that's just

:

00:55:02,776 --> 00:55:06,676

helpful to know when we want to sometimes

make these bigger life decisions.

:

00:55:07,201 --> 00:55:08,521

We're at the top of our ladder.

:

00:55:08,941 --> 00:55:12,601

So when we're regulated and,

and that we can't always do that

:

00:55:12,811 --> 00:55:15,091

right, because lots of time, big

decisions are gonna be activated.

:

00:55:15,091 --> 00:55:19,771

But it's learning these tools of, okay,

how do I access this rounded whole space

:

00:55:19,771 --> 00:55:24,901

of me where I can use my thinking brain

and problem solving brain and connect with

:

00:55:24,901 --> 00:55:27,451

others and not this survival response.

:

00:55:28,411 --> 00:55:29,161

Alex | Mindful with Media: Totally.

:

00:55:29,161 --> 00:55:29,881

Totally.

:

00:55:30,181 --> 00:55:30,961

I love that.

:

00:55:32,041 --> 00:55:34,236

Well, how can my listeners find you?

:

00:55:35,216 --> 00:55:36,326

Erika Behunin: Yeah, thank you.

:

00:55:36,326 --> 00:55:45,776

I am on Instagram at at erica b, and then

my website is erica's counseling.com.

:

00:55:47,276 --> 00:55:50,676

Alex | Mindful with Media: amazing, and

if people wanna work with you, what's

:

00:55:50,676 --> 00:55:51,756

the best way to start working with you?

:

00:55:52,256 --> 00:55:56,061

Erika Behunin: So I do offer free

15 minute consultations, which is

:

00:55:56,061 --> 00:55:59,841

great 'cause it, I can get to know

the individual a little bit, see if

:

00:55:59,931 --> 00:56:03,201

I have the resources and tools to be

able to help with what they're looking

:

00:56:03,201 --> 00:56:05,151

for or they can ask any questions.

:

00:56:05,611 --> 00:56:09,241

The best way to do that is either

through my, I mean, you can find me

:

00:56:09,241 --> 00:56:12,901

on Instagram and that will link to

my website and I have a contact form

:

00:56:13,141 --> 00:56:15,901

that will go directly to me on my

:

00:56:15,926 --> 00:56:16,216

Alex | Mindful with Media: Okay.

:

00:56:16,231 --> 00:56:16,741

Amazing.

:

00:56:18,031 --> 00:56:20,641

And I'll include both of those in

the show notes, both your Instagram

:

00:56:20,641 --> 00:56:22,441

and then also your website.

:

00:56:22,531 --> 00:56:25,291

I think that's awesome that you do the

free 15 minute consultations 'cause

:

00:56:25,291 --> 00:56:28,231

that, that's one thing that was hard

for me when I first started therapy,

:

00:56:28,621 --> 00:56:32,881

was I felt like I had to try all these

therapists, you know, and figure out

:

00:56:32,881 --> 00:56:35,761

insurance and all these things, but

I was like, I dunno, I just love that

:

00:56:35,761 --> 00:56:38,161

you have a free 15 minute consultation.

:

00:56:38,741 --> 00:56:39,251

Erika Behunin: Thank you.

:

00:56:39,751 --> 00:56:41,866

Thanks so much for having me.

:

00:56:41,866 --> 00:56:43,606

I appreciate you.

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About the Podcast

Mindful with Media
This is the podcast for entrepreneurial moms who want to grow a meaningful, profitable business without sacrificing their other priorities (like spending time with their kids or getting enough sleep).

Host Alex Fales—business coach, mindset mentor, and mom—shares honest conversations, simple strategies, and powerful mindset shifts to help you and make money doing work you love and grow as a person while you're at it.

Expect solo episodes, authentic chats, and real-life stories that help you blend business strategy with personal growth, so you can build a business that supports your life (not the other way around).

Because you don’t need more hustle.
You need clarity, confidence, and the courage to do business your way.