Episode 44

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Published on:

13th Mar 2024

44 | Tackling Your Kids' Sleep // with Janell Porter

Janell Porter is a Certified Sleep Specialist who focuses on helping grade school-aged kids sleep. In this episode, we talk about why kids have a hard time falling back asleep on their own, how to balance getting your own needs met while also helping your kids, and how to work together with your husband when you have different approaches to sleep.

@thesleepconnection on Instagram

Transcript
Speaker:

I've coached nearly 100 women about their

screen time, and here's what I've learned.

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Women actually don't care about their

screen time, they care about those things

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that are impacted by their screen time.

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Their ability to be patient with their

kids, the growth of their business,

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having time to pursue their creative

dreams, their relationship with their

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husband, the inner peace that they feel,

their confidence in themselves, their

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Connection with God, their friendships

not missing out on their kids' childhoods.

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I'm Alex and I'm here to

help you find inner peace.

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Enjoy true fulfillment

and be fully present.

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Welcome to the Mindful with Media Podcast.

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I am so excited to have Janelle

here to talk about sleep.

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Will you go ahead and introduce

yourself a little bit?

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Yes.

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Thanks so much for having me, Alex.

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My name is Janelle Porter.

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I am a certified life coach.

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I certified in the life coach school

the very beginning of:

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several years doing life coaching.

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I love learning and I love helping

others and I love entrepreneurship.

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So that kind of was the path

of where this all began.

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I certified.

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Through the ethical coaching collective.

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I've done a lot of deep dives and a lot

of certifications and nervous system work.

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I've done work in trauma.

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I've done lots of,

, entrepreneurial coaching.

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And that's kind of where my

background was in the coaching and I.

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I coached like dozens and dozens

of entrepreneurs, and it was really

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interesting as I was coaching.

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I always noticed a theme, you know, they

would come and we would be coaching on

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business and how they can grow their

mindset and how they can try to reach

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their goals and sleep came up almost

every time, which was really interesting

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to me because at the time it was

something I was struggling with too.

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So.

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My last coaching that I did for

myself in trying to help become a

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better coach, we did a deep dive

into the nervous system and sleep.

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And I didn't even know that was going

to be part of my training, but I

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really learned how to use my nervous

system to help me with not only

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mindset work, but with sleep as well.

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And we did a big, deep dive into sleep.

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And she, she taught us

the importance of sleep.

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We dove into all of that, but really I

took what I was learning and I was using

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it for myself to try to fix my sleep.

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I am the type of person

I would wake up at 3 a.

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m.

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Thinking about things, thinking about

my business, thinking about the things I

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forgot to do as a mom thinking, Oh, shoot,

did I unplug this before I went to bed?

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My mind is just always racing.

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And so, I really started to apply

the things I learned for my sleep.

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And then, I'm like, okay, how can I

take this and use this for my kids?

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So, I took what I was learning and I just

made it a little bit more kid friendly.

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And I took all the nervous system

tools I had learned about to

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help my body and my mind relax.

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To help sleep come more

naturally and quickly.

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So, that's what led me to

the sleep portion of this.

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And Yeah, that's kind of

what brought me here today.

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I kept getting the nudge of maybe this

is something The other moms need to you

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know, we're we're busy We have our lives

We all have so many things we're doing

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and at the end of the day, we're depleted.

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We're exhausted And it's usually

the hardest part of the day.

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You have dinner time, right?

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You have like, everyone's

tired, everyone's exhausted.

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So now I've got to put my kids to bed.

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And then, you know, that can be

a lot of times for me, it would

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be like an hour long process.

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The older my kids got, I kind

of got through the baby stage.

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I'm like, okay, that was hard.

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It'll be so nice when they can all sleep.

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So then they get a little bit older

and then they start getting out

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of their beds a little bit more.

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And then they realized

like, mom, I'm older.

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I can stay up later.

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Like, I don't need to go to bed so early.

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So bedtime was taking a lot longer and

I'm like, okay, this is something we can

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really focus on because it's so important

that our kids are getting good sleep.

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And so it's something I tried with my

family, kind of experimented a little bit.

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Try to make it something

that the kids can enjoy.

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And really the whole, whole purpose

behind this is, it's important that

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after you put your kids to bed, that

you're, you have enough time to relax

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for yourself, that you can take care

of yourself, that you, you're not

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like in this shame cycle because you

suddenly turned into the momster at

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night, like get your butt back in bed,

I told you not to get out of bed, right?

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All of those things that can happen.

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So it can be a time where we

can connect with our kids.

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We can get them to sleep quickly,

and then we can have time to

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do what we need to relax to.

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We need time to unwind.

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We need time away from our kids

to recharge and then get to

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bed on time ourselves as well.

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This is so important.

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And this is so cool hearing more of

your story and your, your trainings and

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knowledge and just how it all connects.

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I love that connection with the,

the nervous system and sleep.

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That's something that I've always

been really passionate about sleep.

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If you ask anybody from any

stage of my life, they will

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laugh at how much I love sleep.

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And so this is, this is my kind

of talk, like getting sleep.

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It's a great thing to be good at.

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Not a lot of people are good at it.

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Well, it's interesting you say

that because I did an episode, I

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don't know, several months ago.

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I think I called it how to make

yourself go to bed on time.

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And it was one of those

episodes where I was like.

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Oh, I just need to get

something out there.

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And so I just kind of like said stuff,

assuming that everybody viewed life

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that way and viewed sleep that way.

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But that is the most feedback I've ever

gotten on a podcast episode was that

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episode about sleep and how to get sleep.

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Yeah.

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As an adult.

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And so, yeah, I, I would agree

with that from my experience.

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And it also gives me a lot of hope

just that concept of you were talking

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about like, you know, right now my

kids go to bed at seven o'clock and

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it's great because I get a A couple

hours to do things like this, you know?

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Yeah.

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Interviews and puzzles

and I'll paint my nails.

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I don't know.

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Yeah.

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And my nighttime is my, my self-care time.

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But I've thought about that like, oh

no, I'm so nervous when they get older

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and I won't have that me time anymore.

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So I'm really, really looking

forward to this conversation.

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Excellent.

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Yeah.

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No, it really is a, it can be a

struggle, especially you want.

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You want your kids to be involved,

and as they get older, and as they

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have, you know, basketball games

that don't get over till 9 30, right?

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You want to be there to support

your kids, and sorry, we can't come

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to your basketball game because we

got to get the kids to bed, right?

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Like it really becomes a struggle of

like, okay, how can we figure this out?

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How can we make this work so

we are getting enough sleep?

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So this, is interesting because

So there's something that I like

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to call the magic sleep window.

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So if your kids are little and they're

struggling to fall asleep there is a

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magic window of time when your body

is naturally going to get tired.

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And when they're little, their bodies

get tired, they need more sleep, right?

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Because they're growing,

they're developing.

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So this magic window happens a

little earlier in younger kids.

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And this is a small window of time

wherein It's exactly that, that

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their bodies are getting tired.

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The circadian rhythm, right?, there's

chemicals in the body, there's

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things happening physiologically

that are signaling it's time,

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you're tired, you need sleep.

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So if that window, let's just say, Just

to make it a little clear, let's say

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that that happens in younger kids, like

ages three and four, let's say that

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that window, we don't know exactly when

it happens, but we'll just say like

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630 at night, those things are going

to start to happen right chemicals are

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going to be released in their body.

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Even the sun going down helps tell

them like, okay, it's time for my body

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to sleep and your body knows that.

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So this very small window is where we

want to get our kids to bed because they

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can fall asleep the quickest and easiest.

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If we miss that window, I don't know if

you've ever had your kids stay up late

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and it's like suddenly they become hyper.

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And it's like, what is happening?

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They're bouncing off the wall.

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They've got so much energy.

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There is a reason for that.

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So if you miss that magic sleep window,

that window in time when their body's

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naturally winding down their cortisol

spikes, and when your cortisol spikes, it

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tells your body like, okay, it's go time.

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So it makes sense that they get that burst

of energy and they're, they get hyper.

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So the goal is when they're small

to recognize what that window is.

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Start to see and recognize those

signs and get them to bed within

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that window, because it's going to

be easier for them to fall asleep.

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They'll fall asleep so much

quicker and it's going to be so

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much easier for you as the parent.

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So that's, that's kind of a little

trick that I learned about as I was

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studying the body and this circadian

rhythm and how that works in bodies.

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And it really makes a lot of sense

once I understood what was happening.

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So it kind of drives home the point of.

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It is important to get

your kids to bed on time.

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So then my question was, well,

when your kids get older, we

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miss that window all the time.

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So when we get home, you know,

like, you know, maybe even the kids

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ate some snacks or like it was.

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You know, if it's just not the normal

routine, right there, their bodies

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are getting this spike of cortisol.

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They're hyper.

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They're excited.

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They get home.

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They don't want to go to bed.

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They're full of energy.

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So I'm like, okay, we got to figure

out how to use the nervous system.

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If I can do this as an adult, if I can

call my body down, if I can like slow

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down, if I can focus on my breathing.

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It's really about teaching your mind

and your body to calm, like, slow the

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thoughts, calm down, so that we can

take that cortisol and we can lower it.

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And we can use the nervous system

to take over at that point to

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help you fall asleep quickly.

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So , I'm just rolling out a brand

new course, it's called Chaos to Calm,

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Mastering Bedtime with Ease, and this is

really what I'm teaching in that course.

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is life happens.

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Life is busy.

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You don't always get your kids

to bed as early as you want.

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So if you do miss that

sleep window, it's okay.

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You can teach your kids to quickly fall

asleep, to settle down, and have like a

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really good, it just becomes a routine.

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It's something that supports them,

it supports you, and it's a way that

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you can really connect and really

just strengthen families at one

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of the hardest times of the day.

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Wow, that's so powerful and so important.

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And I just think about like, how helpful

that is not only to help your kids learn

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how to do that, but as an adult too,

like you were saying, like when your

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mind is racing and your body's cortisol

spiked, I'm guessing it's similar

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things to help yourself go to bed too.

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Yes.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Because I totally feel that, like,

my ideal bedtime is about 9 p.

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m.

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and if I go to bed much

later than about 9.

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30, I notice a similar thing happening

where it's so much harder for me

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to fall asleep because I'm, I'm

going and my mind's going, my body's

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going and then I don't, so it's

either like, I go to bed at 9 p.

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m.

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or I go to bed at like, 11 p.

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m.

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There's like no in between.

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Yes, exactly.

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No, I think that's so, so

common, especially in adults.

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Like, we wonder why maybe you're sitting

on the couch and maybe you're scrolling

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on your phone or you're watched And

you're like, Oh, just one more, right?

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It's like, almost like a craving

or an addiction, whether it's

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whatever it is you're doing,

you're avoiding going to bed.

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And it's like, why is it so hard for me

to just stop what I'm doing and go to bed?

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Well, it's probably because your

cortisol is spiked and your body

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thinks it's, it's, it's time to go.

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Like if we kind of miss that window.

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And so your body compensates and it's

like, okay, let's send a burst of energy

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if you're going to still be awake.

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Let's.

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Let's make, which is a healthy

thing in certain circumstances,

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like for survival, probably

coming back to the nervous system.

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Exactly.

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So just understanding what's happening

in your body and then it's okay.

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If I understand what's happening

now, what do I want to do about it?

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Because we really have, our

mind is such a powerful tool.

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And when we take our mind and

we combined it with our body.

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And even our spirit too, right?

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Like we're such complex beings,

but there are amazing tools that we

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can use to, to help ourselves that,

okay, I probably should go to sleep.

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I know when I do go to sleep on

time, I'm able to focus more.

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I have more energy.

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I'm able to be more patient

with my kids, all of those great

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benefits that we want from sleep.

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But yeah, it is hard.

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It's hard to stop what you're doing and.

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Go to bed.

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Yes.

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Oh, that is so helpful.

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Do you have anything else

to say about like why it's

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hard for kids to fall asleep?

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Or are you ready to talk about

like why kids wake up in the night?

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Okay.

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Yes, so., I think it's pretty common

for kids to wake up in the middle of the

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night and it's pretty common if they go

and get in bed with mom or dad, right?

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So the reason they do that

is because their bodies, our

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bodies are creatures of habit.

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If, when you put your kids down for the

night, when you put them to sleep, if

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you are always in the room with them,

if you are laying in bed with them,

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maybe you're laying in your bed and

then you go take them to their bed,

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their bodies become dependent on that.

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It's just a habit is

basically that's formed.

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So, a lot of kids experience

separation anxiety, right?

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When you're little, their

comfort is their mom.

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When they get hurt, they run to their mom.

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When it's time to fall

asleep, mom is the comfort.

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And this is something that happens

on a subconscious level, right?

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Their, their subconscious knows

that if mom's here, it's safe.

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If mom's here,, if dad's

here, it's going to be okay.

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My body can relax.

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It's safe for me to go to sleep.

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Right.

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A lot of kids can be scared of

so many things, and that can be

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a factor that can affect bedtime.

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So if they're in the habit of always

having mom or dad right there with

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them, as they're falling asleep, when

they wake up in the middle of the

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night, that's like a need, right?

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That becomes a habit of, well, I don't

fall asleep unless mom's with me.

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So, of course, I'm going to

go and get in bed with mom.

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That makes sense because

that's what I always do.

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That's, that's what my body knows is safe.

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, that's how I fall asleep and this

happens subconsciously with kids.

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So, the reason they, they wake up in

the night and come and get in your

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bed is because they don't know how

to relax their bodies on their own

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what do you do about that?

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Like, I mean, I guess it's

probably a case by case.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So I am not, I don't think there's

one right way to put your kids to bed.

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I don't think bedtime needs to look like

ABCD and you do it in this exact order.

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You find what works for you.

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So especially in younger kids, like

you're never going to go put your kid,

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just say go to bed and they go to bed.

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I mean, eventually.

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You know, that's what my teenagers do now

and that's normal but when they're younger

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So what I teach in my program is I teach

you were a vital part of bedtime and you

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are in their room As they're learning

the things so it's something that can

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be learned quick, but within like a two

week period of time you can teach your

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kids the tools to relax their mind and

their body and there's apps you can use.

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There's all kinds of aids that can

help in this, but as long as they

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know the process, so someone is

young as like even four and five

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years old, they're smart enough to

learn how something works, right?

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So if you have a little routine,

whether it's breathing exercises, you

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do, maybe you do a story, whatever

your routine is, you do that with

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them and they know that routine.

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So I'll use myself an example.

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And my boys, what we do with them,

like we always brush their teeth.

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We're in their room.

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We say prayers with them.

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And then they're each different,

each of my boys are different.

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So with one son, we'll start, he'll say,

mom, why don't you start off tonight?

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And so we'll just go through our

routine that we do and we'll start.

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He likes to start with breathing

to help relax their body.

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You can use different techniques

to even relax your muscles.

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Like there's meditation apps.

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If you listen to those, there's so

many free ones that talk about like

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relaxing every single muscle from the

top of your head, all the way down

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to your toes, and you can experiment

with those, find something that works.

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So we want the routine to be

short, but they know their routine.

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So they get into bed

and it becomes a habit.

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It's just something they naturally do.

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So it doesn't have to be a go to bed.

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Go put yourself to bed.

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I'm not a part of this.

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No, I am a part of that because I like

the connection that happens, right?

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Like, yeah, I like to give them hugs.

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We say prayers together And we start

the routine and I'm not in their

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room more than three or four minutes.

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Hmm And I mean, they're usually

still awake But they are able to go

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through that and get their bodies

to go to sleep But you just start

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that routine with them, right?

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Right.

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Sometimes it's not going to

look the same every night.

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Some nights I might be there in there a

little longer, or if they wake up with a

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bad dream I might go back into their room.

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But once they learn how to fall asleep

and they know their body learns to feel

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safe to fall asleep without you there.

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Then it's easier for them to do that when

they wake up in the middle of the night.

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Totally.

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Totally.

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I guess two questions.

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One, I'm like, I want to talk about my

son because that's the stage of life I'm

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in, but I don't know if that, how much of

that will be applicable to this episode.

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And then the other question I thought

might be helpful for my listeners is

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if they're thinking like what advice

would you give to somebody who wants

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to be Calm and connected at bedtime,

but like you said it's just so done

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and their batteries drained by the

end of the day Like do you have any?

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Tips for them.

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This is a great question.

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So I always say Bedtime begins with you

as the mom you set the tone in your home.

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So I think it's so important

that We take a few minutes for

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ourselves before we get started.

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So you need to go to your room and

have five minutes of quiet time.

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Maybe you need to listen

to your favorite song.

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Maybe you need to journal, like write a

paragraph, whatever it is that you can

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do for yourself before you get started.

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So for years, my husband

served in our church.

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He served as the Bishop for five

years and I had little kids.

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So I did bedtime on my own a lot.

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And I remember being so frustrated

at night, I hated the way I felt.

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I was always angry because I didn't,

I didn't know any of this at the time.

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Like I was just in survival mode.

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So I was tired.

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Bedtime didn't go great.

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You know, I'd lose my patience sometimes.

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And really that's when I found

coaching and realized, oh my gosh.

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This is about me.

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Like if I can change my thoughts

about bedtime, that's number one.

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But you know what?

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Sometimes it's not just

about your thoughts.

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Sometimes it's, my body is depleted.

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Like, I just don't have it in me.

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And so take a few minutes to do

whatever it is you need to do and

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:

give yourself, whether it's a pep

talk, whatever you need, right.

375

:

Okay.

376

:

I can do this for 10 minutes.

377

:

It's like.

378

:

Nothing is more important to

me, my low energy is not more

379

:

important than my kids right now.

380

:

So just, having a mindset shift, a change

about bedtime that this is our time

381

:

where I really connect with my kids.

382

:

No matter how my day's gone, you

know, like as a mom, I mess up a lot.

383

:

And bedtime is an opportunity

for me to repair that.

384

:

Bedtime's an opportunity.

385

:

When I really connect with

my kids, like, it fills you.

386

:

It leaves you feeling so fulfilled

and like, Oh, you know what?

387

:

I did mess up today, but I am a good mom.

388

:

I just spent 15 minutes

connecting with my kids.

389

:

I was talking with them as I was , helping

them put on their pajamas rather than

390

:

me trying to do the dishes and, okay,

everybody go get on your pajamas as

391

:

I'm checking email or doing whatever.

392

:

No, this is the time for

me to connect with them.

393

:

And I really look forward to that

because if it's something that

394

:

supports you, you're going to

be more likely to keep doing it.

395

:

That's what a habit should be

is something that supports you.

396

:

So it supports you in the

way that it helps fill you.

397

:

It's helping your kids to get to sleep.

398

:

And so really having that shift of, you

know what, I'm going to be a mom and I'm

399

:

going to decide I don't hate bedtime.

400

:

Bedtime is not the

hardest time of the day.

401

:

Bedtime is my time to

really connect with my kids.

402

:

I love just that choosing

that mindset shift.

403

:

I think when I think about like

bedtime with my kids we have a

404

:

routine and it's a, it's a fun time.

405

:

My daughter and my son share a room.

406

:

And so, and my husband

helps out with bedtime.

407

:

So it's like all of us are hanging

out doing bedtime together.

408

:

So in a lot of ways, it's really fun.

409

:

And I also find myself just

like wanting them to go to bed.

410

:

So that.

411

:

I can go have my time.

412

:

And so I love just that, like,

just shifting that, like, leaning

413

:

all into enjoying this time to

connect with them instead of like,

414

:

okay, like, let's keep moving.

415

:

Okay, now put your pajamas on.

416

:

Okay, now put your pull up on,

you know, it's just like, like

417

:

trying to rush the process.

418

:

Yes, exactly.

419

:

So I love, yeah, I love that

mindset shift around that.

420

:

And I also loved that tip of taking

a few minutes before to, you know,

421

:

recharge yourself and make sure that

you're regulated and ready for one

422

:

last push before the night's over.

423

:

Yes.

424

:

You've got it in you and you can do it.

425

:

And I think it's unrealistic to think

that every night is going to look perfect.

426

:

Yes.

427

:

Yes.

428

:

In my house, even after I've

learned all of this stuff,

429

:

I, that time is not perfect.

430

:

And I don't think it's supposed to be.

431

:

I think sometimes I think about I

think maybe God is like, you know what?

432

:

I love you so much and I

know you're really capable.

433

:

And so I'm going to give you bedtime

to help you grow, to help you

434

:

learn, to help teach you patience,

to humble you, yes, to humble you.

435

:

Absolutely.

436

:

So it's okay if it doesn't look perfect,

it doesn't need to be perfect, but it's

437

:

something that you can choose to focus

on that you can choose to improve.

438

:

And even one small moment.

439

:

Maybe it did take a really long time to

get your kids to bed and you didn't have

440

:

as much time as you wanted to relax.

441

:

But if you slow down for just a second

and even just giving your kid a hug,

442

:

like I love the seven second hug.

443

:

I don't know if you've

heard of that before.

444

:

Yeah.

445

:

Yeah.

446

:

Seven seconds can turn

your entire day around.

447

:

Like just one small moment of

connection is all it takes.

448

:

It's so true.

449

:

Like, you probably know more about

like what happens in your body when

450

:

that happens, but like that feeling

of yeah, when your child is hugging

451

:

you for that long is it feels so good.

452

:

It's like, this is what I'm here for.

453

:

This is what it's all about.

454

:

Absolutely.

455

:

I really love that.

456

:

Do you have any tips?

457

:

I know you kind of touched on this,

like for helping kids go back to

458

:

sleep if they wake up in the night.

459

:

So kids need two things.

460

:

When they're waking up, it's

usually a separation anxiety issue.

461

:

Not always, but a lot of the time, right?

462

:

They just need mom or dad to feel safe.

463

:

If they've woken up, maybe

they woke up to a bad dream.

464

:

It's hard to know.

465

:

They don't even know sometimes.

466

:

That's exactly how my son is.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

Right.

469

:

Like they were asleep and

suddenly they're awake.

470

:

And so what they need is they need to

feel safe and they need to feel love.

471

:

So.

472

:

Those are the two things, which,

how do you communicate that when

473

:

they're like really groggy, right?

474

:

And you're tight, they

just hook you up too.

475

:

So I would say the biggest

thing, especially when they're

476

:

little, like kids respond to

touch and you know your kid best.

477

:

So whether it's, maybe it's something

you can talk about if they're

478

:

old enough to understand that you

can have a conversation about.

479

:

When they're awake sometime that, okay,

when you wake up at night, and I'd

480

:

say they need to be a little older for

this to understand, but when they're

481

:

younger, that might just be part of

being a mom that, yeah, they need me.

482

:

And so I'm going to choose, like,

isn't it amazing that my kids want me?

483

:

Isn't it amazing that I'm the

one that helps them feel safe?

484

:

So, of course, I want to go help

put them back to bed, right, right.

485

:

So that again is going to be a mindset

for the mom, for the dad, whoever's doing

486

:

that, that like, I mean, you can think

like, Oh my gosh, they woke up again.

487

:

I'm going to be so tired, right?

488

:

There's that.

489

:

Or you can be like, , I'm so

glad they feel safe with me.

490

:

That is so, I'm going to keep instilling

that and I'm going to go help them

491

:

put them, I'm going to go do what

it takes to get them back to sleep.

492

:

So one, then when they get a little

older, having the conversation of,

493

:

okay, when you wake up at night,

what really helps you feel safe?

494

:

What helps your body relax?

495

:

And let's every time if you wake

up at night to remind yourself,

496

:

like I'm in my bed, I'm in my

room and I'm safe right now.

497

:

Just teaching them those

simple things that.

498

:

And, and really they might, they might

need to come get you even when they're

499

:

older, when they have a bad dream.

500

:

Like, we don't want them to be scared

in their room crying, they need to, they

501

:

need to do whatever needs to happen.

502

:

But , when they do get older, and this is

something I teach in my program that when

503

:

they wake up at night I have a technique

that really activates the vagus nerve.

504

:

That helps them feel safe,

that helps them feel calm.

505

:

So that's kind of what I recommend

is I would recommend this activity.

506

:

There's so many things just simple

things they can do, even like breathing.

507

:

Like if you ever wake up and

you're scared, let's figure

508

:

out a breathing technique you

can do to help you calm down.

509

:

And you know that whenever you wake

up at night, this is what you do,

510

:

whether it's breathing, whether

it's a vagus nerve technique.

511

:

Maybe it's tapping.

512

:

If your kid likes tapping, right,

whatever is going to work for them and

513

:

just having those conversations and

even, you know what, there's going to

514

:

be times when maybe you're at school

or other times where you might not feel

515

:

safe or your body is going to respond.

516

:

And , if you do breathing, if you do

tapping, if you do, I mean, there's so

517

:

many different things that they can do.

518

:

This is going to help your body calm down.

519

:

This is going to help shift

you from in our nervous system.

520

:

We really want to be in the

parasympathetic nervous system

521

:

in order to be calm, to feel

safe and to be able to sleep.

522

:

So, teaching that to your kids so

they understand once they get old

523

:

enough to understand that these are

the things I do to help me calm down.

524

:

And what good skills for life, like

you say, like, yes, that applies to

525

:

bedtime, but if you can learn How

to regulate your nervous system.

526

:

You're going to be set

up for success in life.

527

:

This is a huge deal.

528

:

And I loved what you said earlier

about like, you know, teaching

529

:

your child to say like, I'm in

my bed, I'm in my room, I'm safe.

530

:

And those are things that

seem obvious to us as adults.

531

:

And maybe even those like regulating

techniques, maybe they seem obvious

532

:

and they're so simple, they're not so

obvious to the child and those simple

533

:

things are what are powerful and actually

can be implemented and have an impact.

534

:

So I love that.

535

:

So kind of with this, I think,

especially with if kids are having a

536

:

hard time falling asleep or with you.

537

:

needing to go in and help your child

or if they end up sleeping in your

538

:

bed, whatever it is, to help them feel

safe so they can fall back asleep.

539

:

How do you balance meeting your

own sleep needs as the mom or the

540

:

dad while also helping your child?

541

:

Okay, this is a great question.

542

:

To be honest with you, I think there's

times where you don't balance it, right?

543

:

Like you need to be flexible.

544

:

For example, let's say

your kids sick, right?

545

:

They're going to be up several

times, whether, you know, whatever's

546

:

happening, they wake up several times

and you as the mom to think you're

547

:

always going to have a balance.

548

:

I just, I don't believe in that.

549

:

Like I think there's seasons

of life for a reason.

550

:

And there's even

551

:

I think there's.

552

:

There's times when it's easier

to do when your kids are

553

:

little, it is hard to do, right?

554

:

Especially if you're nursing, right?

555

:

How do you to expect there to be balance

when you have a newborn and you're

556

:

waking up in the middle of the night

nursing a newborn to expect balance.

557

:

I think it's just okay to go

with what, with what's happening

558

:

in that season of life.

559

:

Totally.

560

:

I think they let go of any shoulds or

this is what I thought it was going to be.

561

:

And just coming back to like,

okay, this is my reality right now.

562

:

So do I need to take a nap when

my kids are napping during the

563

:

day and allow yourself to do that?

564

:

The dishes can sit in the sink and it's

going to be okay that I know what I need

565

:

as a mom is a little bit more sleep.

566

:

So I'm going to nap when

my kids are napping.

567

:

Or whatever works for you.

568

:

I think it's hard to expect to

have it feel balanced all the time.

569

:

So I really like working on habits.

570

:

I love habits, but I like to think of

a habit is something that supports you.

571

:

So if it doesn't support you,

you're not going to want to do it.

572

:

So letting go of the shoulds.

573

:

That I should be getting more sleep.

574

:

It would be nice to get more

sleep, but I'm going to do what

575

:

I need to take care of myself.

576

:

Maybe that's I make an

eat a simpler dinner.

577

:

Maybe it's I order pizza more often.

578

:

So the cleanup can be easier so

that we can start bedtime and I can

579

:

get to bed a little bit earlier.

580

:

Whatever that looks like.

581

:

I think I totally agree.

582

:

Yeah.

583

:

I don't have the magic answer for that.

584

:

I think the expectations, I think

especially for me as a new mom, you

585

:

know, seeing all these things about how

to get your baby to sleep 10 to 12 hours

586

:

a night from however many days old, I

guess I say, I will say like that might

587

:

work great for some people and for some

babies and that's awesome, but like

588

:

you say, it's those false expectations

of like, my baby should do this and.

589

:

And then when you don't get that

sleep, yeah, it's like more upsetting.

590

:

Whereas if you're just expecting

like to not get the sleep,

591

:

it's not as big of a deal.

592

:

But when you think my child should be

doing whatever, it's much more triggering.

593

:

Yes.

594

:

And planning, you know, when there are

those times when you're not getting

595

:

as much sleep, maybe you can't take a

nap during the day, but maybe you can

596

:

just sit down, put your phone down.

597

:

And let your body rest, right?

598

:

Maybe let your mind rest.

599

:

I think sometimes the more you

say out loud, I'm so tired.

600

:

I am so tired.

601

:

Guess what's going to happen to your body.

602

:

Your body's going to feel more

tired and I think it's okay

603

:

to be honest with yourself.

604

:

I don't think you have

to, pretend you're not tired.

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

Don't pretend you're not tired

because you can be tired, but do you

607

:

need to talk about it all the time?

608

:

Does that need to be the focus?

609

:

Maybe it's, I am tired and I think

the power of and is so powerful

610

:

that I am tired and I can have

energy and connect with my kids.

611

:

For a few minutes when they want

to play Legos with me or also like

612

:

totally I think I'm on this push

right now to reach out for help more.

613

:

I think Whether that's reaching out

to help from screens or reaching

614

:

out to help from a neighbor.

615

:

I have a friend who lives close to me

and she is awesome at just reaching

616

:

out and saying like, Hey, yeah,

like I'm feeling really sick today.

617

:

I'm feeling really tired today.

618

:

Can you take my kids for an hour?

619

:

And it's easier for me because then

my kids have someone to play with.

620

:

I don't know.

621

:

I think reaching out for help more and

then that builds connection and then

622

:

you get the rest that you need as well.

623

:

Right.

624

:

Okay.

625

:

Great.

626

:

And then you can return, you

know, that's something big.

627

:

Exactly, yeah.

628

:

And then it opens that door for me of, oh,

like, I can reach out, I can be vulnerable

629

:

and say, Hey, I'm having a hard time.

630

:

Can you help me?

631

:

Yes.

632

:

, don't do it alone do it with somebody.

633

:

Yes.

634

:

I totally agree.

635

:

I, I love that of just letting go

of expectations and shoulds when it

636

:

comes to kids sleep or your own sleep.

637

:

I think that's Right.

638

:

Such a good answer.

639

:

So with all of these approaches, what

advice would you give to someone if their

640

:

husband views sleep differently or like

how to handle their kids sleep differently

641

:

what recommendations would you give?

642

:

Okay, this is a great question.

643

:

Just like you would reach out

to your neighbor or friend being

644

:

willing to be vulnerable and have

the conversation in the first place.

645

:

So whatever it is that you may not see eye

to eye on, maybe it's you love to sleep

646

:

with your kids and maybe your husband

doesn't want them to be in the bed, right?

647

:

I think being willing to

communicate what your goals are

648

:

and what it is that you want.

649

:

That's number one, right?

650

:

You have to communicate.

651

:

I think taking a step back, zooming out

and looking at a bigger perspective.

652

:

Is this something I just want?

653

:

Or is this something that maybe

is actually affecting and causing

654

:

maybe some unwanted side effects?

655

:

So maybe I don't mind if my kids come and

get in bed with us, but it really bothers

656

:

my husband and he doesn't want them to.

657

:

So is this something

that's affecting his work?

658

:

That he's not getting the sleep he

needs to do his job or, you know, so

659

:

it's, it's zooming out, looking at

the bigger picture that you want this.

660

:

And I kind of like this, and this is

different and that's okay, but let's

661

:

talk about, is this something that is a,

this would be nice if, or is it something

662

:

that's actually causing some problems that

maybe I didn't really think about that?

663

:

That can be a conversation to have.

664

:

So just looking out, looking at the

bigger picture and realizing that there's

665

:

compromise and it's all an experiment.

666

:

So let's try it your way.

667

:

Okay.

668

:

I, I do see your point of view.

669

:

Let's try it that way.

670

:

Just being willing to

experiment and see what works.

671

:

And I, I'm not going

to tell you what to do.

672

:

If you love to sleep with your

kids, sleep with your kids.

673

:

That's not what we do in our house.

674

:

I mean, there have been

periods of time where.

675

:

You know, if kids are sick or there

are certain things, but it's just been

676

:

something we've decided in our house.

677

:

I'm not a big proponent of having,

you know, everyone in the same bed.

678

:

Some people like that, if that

works for you, great, do it.

679

:

If it doesn't work for you.

680

:

And if there is some conflict,

communicate about it.

681

:

And experiment, try different things,

be open and be willing to do what's

682

:

best for the good of the entire family.

683

:

I think that's such a healthy

approach, and this is something my

684

:

husband and I have talked a lot about.

685

:

My husband had brain surgery.

686

:

Seven years ago now, which is crazy.

687

:

Actually, I think this week is like

the seven year anniversary, but

688

:

as a result, he's had seizures and

one of his triggers for having a

689

:

seizure is not getting enough sleep.

690

:

And so kind of like you said, like

other factors, it's a really big

691

:

factor for him to get enough sleep.

692

:

And he's , a very light sleeper

and I'm really deep sleeper.

693

:

And so.

694

:

He was always getting up with the

kids because he could hear them,

695

:

but I just slept through it all.

696

:

And so, yeah, we've kind of been trying

to navigate that, like, how do we make

697

:

sure that You get enough sleep because

we all want you, you know, my husband to

698

:

get enough sleep because that will impact

us in different ways While also meeting

699

:

my son's needs who you know gets up.

700

:

He falls asleep great on his own

Sometimes he sleeps through the

701

:

night But then don't know, sometimes

he'll get up like three, four times.

702

:

Sometimes he'll get up just once or twice.

703

:

And so, yeah, it's just kind of

like, how do I get enough sleep?

704

:

Because my anxiety is super impacted

by sleep and my husband get enough

705

:

sleep and my son get enough sleep.

706

:

It's all.

707

:

Yeah.

708

:

I just like that.

709

:

I love your approach

of just experimenting.

710

:

That's exactly what we're

doing is just experimenting.

711

:

So we can all have most of our

needs met most of the time, right?

712

:

I think most of the time.

713

:

A lot of the women I've talked to that

do love to sleep with their kids, right?

714

:

It's, they want that connection.

715

:

They want that, right?

716

:

Nothing feels better than holding

a baby in your arms, right?

717

:

It does something for your body.

718

:

It's a healthy thing.

719

:

So if that's what it is you're after,

how can I get that during the day?

720

:

How can I be, how can I experiment?

721

:

And maybe I need a little more

one on one time with my kids.

722

:

Or maybe if you have a lot of kids,

maybe it's, I need to do dates with each

723

:

of them, like a date night or something

special where I'm getting a little

724

:

bit more one on one time with them.

725

:

Or part of bedtime, you know, back

to that like bedtime routine, more

726

:

one on one connection before each.

727

:

Yeah.

728

:

before bed, right?

729

:

Maybe we need to do a few

more hugs during the day.

730

:

Like, what a way to set

your nervous system.

731

:

Like, before we start

dinner, it's hug time.

732

:

I love that for like a

nervous system regulation.

733

:

Yeah.

734

:

There's ways to fill that need that

you have and it doesn't have to be.

735

:

While you're sleeping because when you're

sleeping, you're actually not getting

736

:

that it's just for a few moments before

you fall asleep once you fall asleep.

737

:

You're not feeling that you're

not present for that, right?

738

:

Yeah, I totally feel that way.

739

:

I think that my my ideal would be

My husband and I sleep in our bed.

740

:

My kids sleep in their bed all through

the night, but I think it's to the place

741

:

of like, I don't want to get up five

more times to help you go back to sleep.

742

:

It sounds easier to just either you

sleep in here or what we've been doing.

743

:

If it's a really rough night,

I'll go sleep next to my son in

744

:

his room, but like on the floor.

745

:

Him in his bed.

746

:

Yeah.

747

:

Yeah.

748

:

Yeah.

749

:

Yeah.

750

:

So then my husband can get sleep,

I can get sleep, my son can get

751

:

sleep, like meeting all those needs.

752

:

Yes.

753

:

So there's no right or wrong

way to do things that, right?

754

:

There's probably 15 other ways

that we haven't even thought of.

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

That when you give your, your

brain a problem to solve, you

757

:

can become really creative.

758

:

And think of all kinds of ideas

and talk to your friends, ask

759

:

what works, what works for them.

760

:

Yeah.

761

:

I think that's such a good point.

762

:

I'll just say this one last thing I loved

what you said when you, what did you say?

763

:

When you have a problem to solve,

your brain can become really creative.

764

:

Yes.

765

:

And I think Often the hardest part

of that process is just identifying

766

:

what problem you're even solving,

which is what I think you were

767

:

getting at earlier with like, okay,

like what, what factors are at play?

768

:

Like, yeah, what problem

are we even trying to solve?

769

:

Is it actually to get our son

to sleep through the night?

770

:

Or is it?

771

:

To get my husband enough sleep,

or is it to get us all agreeing?

772

:

What, what problem are we trying to solve?

773

:

And then most important, right?

774

:

Yeah.

775

:

Yeah.

776

:

And obviously they all might play factor.

777

:

Yeah.

778

:

But just then you can be really

creative about solving the problem

779

:

you're actually trying to solve.

780

:

Yes.

781

:

So I thought it was a really good point.

782

:

Anything else that you would love

to enlighten us with about sleep or

783

:

nervous system or I could talk for

hours, but I'll leave you with it.

784

:

So a couple tips, whether your kids

are really young, whether they're

785

:

grade school age, even for teenagers.

786

:

As much as you can start with

yourself, pay attention and really

787

:

start to check in with your body.

788

:

When you start to feel tired,

things happen in your body.

789

:

And if you're paying attention,

you'll start to notice that.

790

:

So number one is I would

say, try to start earlier.

791

:

Do what you can to support yourself.

792

:

Maybe that's meal planning, right?

793

:

It starts, it starts at dinnertime.

794

:

It starts when I feel like bedtime starts

way earlier than when you're actually

795

:

brushing teeth and that's interesting.

796

:

Yeah.

797

:

Right.

798

:

So how can I prepare for that?

799

:

How can I start even 20 minutes

earlier and set myself up for success?

800

:

So I would say start earlier,

try to be consistent.

801

:

Actually, I'm going to take that back.

802

:

Try to be consistently flexible.

803

:

Ooh, that's a good phrase.

804

:

I think, right, there's going to be

nights when you're not going to get to

805

:

bed on time and that's okay because you're

going to choose to go to that activity.

806

:

You're going to choose to

go to the family party.

807

:

You're going to choose those things

and know, yeah, kids are going to

808

:

get to bed later, but I'm going to

choose to be consistently flexible.

809

:

Right.

810

:

It's always top of mind.

811

:

How can I shorten the bedtime

routine a little bit tonight?

812

:

Like maybe my kids

don't need to be bathed.

813

:

Maybe I can use a diaper wiping,

clean their hands and feet.

814

:

Like there's so many ways you can

shorten things up, make it easier.

815

:

And then the third thing I would

say is bedtime starts with you.

816

:

What can you do to really

calm yourself down?

817

:

Like take a couple deep breaths.

818

:

Do ground yourself, put two feet up,

go outside for a few minutes, even

819

:

if it's cold, that cold air can help

you gain clarity, do whatever you

820

:

need to do to calm yourself because

you don't want to be reacting.

821

:

You want to be calm.

822

:

You want to be not a pushover, right?

823

:

You want to, you want to get kids to bed.

824

:

It's important.

825

:

They get to sleep.

826

:

The energy you bring, the connection

you bring is so important.

827

:

So focus on that.

828

:

And when you're actively thinking,

how can I connect with my kids tonight?

829

:

I guarantee you, it's going to go better.

830

:

Yeah.

831

:

Take opportunities to slow

down and to fill your cup.

832

:

Sometimes we think like, I just need

time to myself, but maybe it's, I

833

:

just need a little bit of connection.

834

:

That's so beautiful.

835

:

Those were huge takeaways for me of

taking a minute to recharge myself

836

:

or just kind of check in with myself.

837

:

You know, I think the end of

day, we've, we've got a very

838

:

strict routine at my house.

839

:

We got dinnertime, scriptures, milk

and water, bath time, bedtime, you

840

:

know, it's like, just kind of that.

841

:

Yeah.

842

:

Like you say that go, go, go time.

843

:

So I love that idea of just.

844

:

Okay, let me just like pause

for a second, check in.

845

:

How am I doing?

846

:

Even just tonight, my husband

and I, we don't usually do this,

847

:

but we were like, how are you

feeling on a scale of one to 10?

848

:

Like, I love that.

849

:

And it was really good for us.

850

:

for me to know where he was at.

851

:

Cause I was like, I'm at like

a three, like I'm tired, but

852

:

like, I'm not super triggered.

853

:

And he was like, I'm kind of at a seven.

854

:

Like I'm, I'm feeling

easily triggered tonight.

855

:

I don't know.

856

:

It just was helpful to know where

each other were at or that process.

857

:

That's so great.

858

:

And to be able to communicate

that to each other that, you know

859

:

what, tonight I've had a long day.

860

:

Can you take the lead?

861

:

Exactly.

862

:

Deciding, you know what, maybe we're

going to switch off on bedtime.

863

:

Yeah.

864

:

When someone's going to do the dishes

and clean up and someone's going to

865

:

put kids to bed, or maybe, you know, we

like doing it together, but trying being

866

:

willing to try different things and.

867

:

Yeah, be consistently flexible

and open to maybe this would help.

868

:

Maybe this would improve that.

869

:

Maybe we just need to communicate

before bedtime to know, I love

870

:

that, that you guys asked each

other, how are you feeling tonight?

871

:

You know?

872

:

Yeah.

873

:

And I think it helped having that scale.

874

:

Cause you know, I think we

often ask, how you doing?

875

:

But it's like, fine.

876

:

Good.

877

:

But it's like, what does that even mean?

878

:

Like, yeah.

879

:

Like.

880

:

Yes.

881

:

Yes.

882

:

But yeah, I think that I don't

even know why we did that tonight,

883

:

but we just did, but I love it.

884

:

I think we'll keep doing it.

885

:

But yeah, I loved how you

said check in with yourself

886

:

and then focus on connection.

887

:

I think that's going to be a game changer

for me with bedtime with my kids and

888

:

then also just letting go of expectations

for what the night needs to look like.

889

:

Yes.

890

:

And if there's something that's really

important to you at bedtime, so I have,

891

:

I have a lot of friends that are like,

I love to talk with my kids at bed.

892

:

They, they always open up at bedtime.

893

:

How do I get them to bed

quicker if they're actually

894

:

opening up and starting to talk?

895

:

Right?

896

:

So it's okay.

897

:

What, how do I ask those questions?

898

:

Maybe I want to ask, , what was

the best thing that happened today?

899

:

Give me a high, give me a low.

900

:

Give me a win from the day.

901

:

Maybe we start those conversations

at dinner time, right?

902

:

Because those conversations are so

important, but just being willing

903

:

to experiment and see that, you

know, what, maybe some, some days,

904

:

if your kids opening up to you

that you're going to be willing to

905

:

tonight, I'm just going to listen.

906

:

I think I need to listen.

907

:

And if they go to bed 15

minutes later, that's okay.

908

:

Yeah, that's worth it that like, I love

what you said earlier about like, you

909

:

feel like you're craving that alone

time and maybe you are, but also maybe

910

:

you're craving that connection too.

911

:

Like that can fill you up as well.

912

:

I thought that was a really good insight.

913

:

Awesome.

914

:

Well, thank you so much.

915

:

This has been so enlightening and good

for me and you just have such a, just

916

:

such a beautiful approach to life and

very knowledgeable too with, it's all,

917

:

it's all backed by I don't know, your

trainings and your, your expertise.

918

:

So I appreciate you sharing your

knowledge with me and with my audience.

919

:

Will you let my listeners know

both where they can find you and

920

:

then how they can work with you?

921

:

Yes, absolutely.

922

:

It's been a pleasure to have

this conversation with you.

923

:

I love talking sleep.

924

:

You can find me.

925

:

I am on instagram.

926

:

It's at the sleep connection So that's

that's the place I would send you to

927

:

oh, this is what a gift to the world.

928

:

So many people need this.

929

:

So thanks for being willing

to, to put the work in.

930

:

Thank you so much for having me.

931

:

It's been great.

932

:

And I will in the show notes,

I'll put a link to your Instagram,

933

:

perfect.

934

:

Thank you so much for having me.

935

:

Yeah, absolutely.

936

:

Thanks so much, Janelle.

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About the Podcast

Mindful with Media
This is the podcast for entrepreneurial moms who want to grow a meaningful, profitable business without sacrificing their other priorities (like spending time with their kids or getting enough sleep).

Host Alex Fales—business coach, mindset mentor, and mom—shares honest conversations, simple strategies, and powerful mindset shifts to help you and make money doing work you love and grow as a person while you're at it.

Expect solo episodes, authentic chats, and real-life stories that help you blend business strategy with personal growth, so you can build a business that supports your life (not the other way around).

Because you don’t need more hustle.
You need clarity, confidence, and the courage to do business your way.