Episode 46

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Published on:

27th Mar 2024

46 | Practical Tips for Busy Moms // with Susanne Gerstmyer

In Susanne Gerstmyer's new book Breaking Free of Busy: A Mum's Guide to Living with Ease and Confidence, she "empowers you to live life at your own pace, feeling calm and grounded even in the busiest of times."

In this episode, we talk about the impact of mental and emotional busyness, the six different types of busy modes, and the role of social media in feeling busy.

Helpful Links:

Breaking Free of Busy by Susanne Gerstmyer

SusanneGerstmyer.com

Transcript
Speaker:

I've coached nearly 100 women about their

screen time, and here's what I've learned.

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Women actually don't care about their

screen time, they care about those things

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that are impacted by their screen time.

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Their ability to be patient with their

kids, the growth of their business,

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having time to pursue their creative

dreams, their relationship with their

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husband, the inner peace that they feel,

their confidence in themselves, their

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Connection with God, their friendships

not missing out on their kids' childhoods.

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I'm Alex and I'm here to

help you find inner peace.

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Enjoy true fulfillment

and be fully present.

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Welcome to the Mindful with Media Podcast.

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I am so excited to have

Suzanne Gerstmeier here.

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I've been reading her book and I

just feel so grateful that she would

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be willing to come and talk to us.

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So will you go ahead and

introduce yourself a little bit?

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Hi, I'm Suzanne Gerstmeyer.

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I am a wife, mum to four, you

can probably tell from my accent.

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I am from Sydney, Australia.

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I work as a coach for busy

mums and I'm also studying

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psychotherapy and counselling.

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And I've just written my first book

called Breaking Free of Busy, A Mum's

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Guide to Living with Ease and Confidence.

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Thank you so much.

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And will you tell us a little bit of

why you decided to write this book?

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Well, I guess it really

comes out of my own journey.

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I've always been a really busy

person, a really high energy,

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high achievement kind of person.

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And a number of years ago I actually hit

a Burnout and went from doing everything

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to being on the couch for more than

three months where I couldn't even walk

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down the hallway to put my kids to bed.

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And that was a huge huge wake up call

and a huge transition in my life.

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But years down the track, I realized

that I, I'd actually just, as I'd

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recovered, I'd gone back to living

exactly the same way I had before.

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And I was, I was just really frustrated

with myself and So I went to therapy

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to work out what was actually going on.

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And I read a whole lot of books and

podcasts, and I started interviewing

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women about their experiences.

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And what I really learned is that

we, we often just lack the skills to

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understand our own emotional world.

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So we don't really have a handle on our

thoughts and our feelings and our beliefs.

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And if we don't really understand

how to navigate that internal

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world, then it's very difficult

to make any changes in our lives.

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And I, I started to really understand

how important this was for all aspects

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of our lives and, and about the, the

difference between trying to do it all.

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And the difference between

that and just, just showing up.

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And, and being authentic in our lives.

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And so this was really a message I

wanted to share with other women.

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And so I had been coaching women at that

stage, and I wanted to put something into

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the world that would really be a practical

resource that could reach a lot of people.

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And that would really.

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Take all of the things I learned

and make it really accessible.

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So to be able to break down some really

complex concepts into, into ideas that we

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could actually engage with and actually

apply in the midst of our busy lives.

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So, so that was really my motivation

is, is wanting to share what I'd learned

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and wanting to find a way to make it

accessible and digestible to, to women

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in the, in the middle of busy lives.

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Cause we, we don't have time to sit down

and read a huge tome about psychology

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and delve into our psyche or our

thoughts or any of those sorts of things.

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And yet it's really so important that

we understand that part of ourselves.

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That's so true.

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It's such a powerful story your

story of, being so busy and then

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hitting that breaking point.

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And I'm so grateful that you were willing

to write a book to make this accessible

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because that is no small feat to write

a book and get it into the world.

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And it's been so fun for me to read.

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So, tell me a little bit more

about like the different types

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of busyness as far as like, yeah.

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Well, I think that there's sort of

one thing that I realized in all

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of this is that, that there are

actually some different types of

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busyness that we're experiencing.

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So there's what I call being practically

busy, which is when you have the huge

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to do list and that's what we all see.

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And that's what we see as I'm

busy, I have these you know,

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50 things I need to do today.

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I'm But we're also busy in other ways.

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We're, we're busy mentally when

we often have a whole lot of

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thoughts racing around in our minds.

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Indecision about things or working

out logistics or remembering

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details or trying to plan things.

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That's a mental busyness.

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And there's also an emotional

dimension to busyness.

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And that's where we're busy caregiving

and where we're giving advice and support

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and comfort and we're nurturing and we're,

we're trying to give support and care.

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And so it's just.

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It's busy and this isn't just

about all the things we have to do.

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And one of the first clues to me that

that was the case was that I'd, I'd look

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at what I had to do on different days

and think, well, you know, yesterday

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and today I had the same amount to do.

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And yet today feels overwhelming

and yesterday didn't.

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So there's obviously

something else going on.

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And I think part of

what I realized is that.

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Certainly as, as moms, there's

busyness all around us, but there's

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also a busyness that's inside us.

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And that's often what's most exhausting.

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And I regularly pull my community about

in what area they're most busy and

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it's always mentally and emotionally

is what they're finding the hardest.

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Yeah.

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And once we Once we kind of identify

that area of business and start to work

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with it, then it impacts not only how we

experience all the practical busyness,

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but it also unlocks opportunities for

different ways of handling that busyness.

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In terms of where our boundaries

are and where our standards are.

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And so, so those kinds of things

actually influence each other.

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But if we just, if we just look at our to

do list, we're, we're left thinking, man,

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I just, I just must be better organized.

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I need a new plan.

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I need a new system.

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I need to be more motivated.

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But there's actually so much, so much

more going on that we can start to work

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with that will impact the whole picture of

how we're experiencing life and business.

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That is so interesting, it's

so interesting, kind of as you

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were describing those different

types of business, the practical,

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the mental, and the emotional.

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Just last night, yesterday, I was

just feeling, yeah, like, exhausted,

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like you say, feeling busy.

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But, yeah.

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Yesterday was Sunday.

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I mean, I don't work on Sundays.

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My husband doesn't work on Sundays.

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We don't really do anything

on Sundays besides worship at

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church and then just hang out.

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And so like you say, like from a

practical standpoint, I wasn't busy

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at all, but I realized this week, so

my husband is out of town right now.

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And so my week is

looking really different.

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And I'm doing less, like you say, my

to do list is actually shorter this

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week because I'm going to be going up

and staying with my parents and so I'm

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not going to be doing my normal chores

but my mind was racing with all the

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other things that I needed to be doing.

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Yeah.

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Anyways, it's just interesting thinking

about how you describe those things

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and how it was applying to my, yeah,

my mental busyness and my emotional

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busyness of my husband being gone

and these different tasks that I

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needed to do to get ready to go.

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And okay, well then should I do

my grocery shopping on Monday?

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Like I usually do, or

should I not do it then?

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Or should, you know, just like

the, like you say, the, the mind

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racing and that's one of the.

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Questions that I get the most

from women that I work with

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is, how do you be present?

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Because that's something I talk a lot

about of like, how can you be fully

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present when your mind is just racing with

all of these things you should be doing?

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I know I didn't, like, really

prep you to talk about this, but

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do you have any thoughts on that?

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Yeah, for sure, for sure.

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And I think, I think the first step

is always to acknowledge that that

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dimension of busyness is there and to

be able to have compassion for the fact

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that that is Sometimes it becomes very

circular, but it is also part of the work.

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And it is also part of what we're doing.

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So, so to in our estimations of

how much we can do to be able to

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take that into account and say, I'm

actually doing a lot in my head.

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And so if I'm tired or if I'm

distracted, this is, this is

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a real thing that I'm doing.

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So I think, I think part of it is that

starts there, but the other things are.

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I think really to come back to,

to what our underlying beliefs

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are as well in terms of how that's

informing what we're thinking.

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So when we look at underlying beliefs, we

have often have beliefs like I'm supposed

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to be productive all the time, or that

I can feel every moment of the day and

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be productive every moment of the day.

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Or we have beliefs that

I'm supposed to get.

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Everything done that there is some sort

of finish line I can reach with it.

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I need to make everybody else happy or

that I need to get everything finished.

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And so if we can tap into some of

those underlying beliefs, then it

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just loosens our grip on our own

performance and how much we have to

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do and our expectations around how

perfectly we can manage everything.

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And I think that that just allows

us to pull back and to be a bit more

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grounded I love that first tip of being

compassionate about, yeah, like, You

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are doing a lot of work in your head.

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Like, you are really busy and it

is hard to be present when so much

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of the work you do is in your head.

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I think that was really validating for me.

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And then I really loved, I think

that's something that you talk about

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in your book too, about these, these

kind of mindset shifts of like,

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what, what beliefs do you have?

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That are impacting your ability to

be freed from that, that busyness.

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Yeah.

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And I think part of it too, is

being able to shift those beliefs.

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And I, I often use little

mantras in my head.

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Like I'm exactly where I need to be.

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Right now.

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And, and often that is very grounding

in terms of the busy mind of I'm

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going to do this and I'm going to do

that and I'm going to do something

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else that just recognizing I'm

right where I need to be right now.

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There is no finish line.

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And the most important

thing I can do is show up.

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And I think one of the things that.

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That I really want to speak to women as

mom of kids who are my oldest is 22 and

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my youngest are twins who are 15 and so

I can see kids coming at the other end

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and I can see The significance, not of

what you do, but who you are and they,

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you know, how we live as a blueprint

for how they will experience life.

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So being able to make that shift

to, it's more than about what I do.

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It's about who I am and how I

show up and it will be okay.

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And it will be good enough.

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Those are all things we can

continue to remind ourselves of.

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But I, I think part of it too, is, you

know, is having a game plan for the day.

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And having a sense of, well, I

think of it as the mechanics.

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What are the mechanics of today?

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What are those essential

things that have to happen?

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So we need food.

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We need clean clothes.

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We need possibly baths.

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We need, you know, some

of those essential things.

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And so you, you have like

a scaffold for the day.

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And when we think about what is

essential I like to use a filter

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of what things affect people.

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So what things will make people

stressed, what, what things

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will derail somebody else's day.

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Like if the kids don't have the

right things packed in their bags

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and those become essential because

they have a people implication.

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So just spending 10 minutes mapping out.

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What that essential scaffold is for

the day can be really grounding too.

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And then you can, you can then kind of

quiet those other thoughts about optional

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things that would be nice to have, but

aren't actually going to affect a person.

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And, and depending on your your values

that may be a different test for you,

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but for me, it's what impacts a person.

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And sometimes that person is me and it

might be that I, I just need the kitchen

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to be tidy and often the rest of my house

is a mess, but I like my kitchen tidy

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just because that helps me feel like

I've got a little bit of head space.

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And so then that becomes an important

priority because it affects me.

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And equally if the kids can't

find something, then that becomes

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important to put something away.

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Okay.

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So if you understand what the

bare bones are of the day, then

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that can be really helpful.

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And that can just stop that, that sort

of cycle of, if I could do this and

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I could do that, and I should have

done this and I should have done that,

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you know, what those basic things

are that you want to come back to.

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And I have a chapter in the book

about your I call it a lifestyle map

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for a want of a better description.

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And it really touches on some different

areas of life, for example the tidiness

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of your home or personal presentation or

what you eat, and encourage women to think

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through what exactly is important in those

different areas and what are some trade

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offs that you could make if you needed to.

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And when I've worked through this with

groups of women, some will say, you

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know, it's really important to me that

we nutritious meals, but it's less

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important to me that we, our kids have

color coordinated outfits when we go out.

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So I know when, when tensions are high,

it's important to me to focus on the

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food and less on the, our appearance

say So choosing ahead of hand,

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knowing what to let go of, kind of.

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Yeah, knowing what to let go of and

having that conversation or that chance

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to think yourself about what your

priorities are in different areas.

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And for other families,

it might be Down time.

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So one of the areas is

about the pace of life.

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Some families can do a whole lot

of things and other families can't.

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So looking at those things and

saying, you know, my family doesn't

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like to join in everything, but we

do like to really keep our space

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tidy because that's important to us.

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And so then when you see somebody else

who has a wonderful looking meal on

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Instagram, you know, then you can come

back and say, actually, what we decided

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was important to us was and having our

environment really clean and tidy because

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that is important to our wellbeing.

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So it just is a really a chance for women

to consciously think about what their own

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priorities are and what works for their

family because every family is unique.

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And it's about identifying what are

the particular needs of your family.

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And once you understand that, then,

then when you do have those racing

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thoughts about all the things that you

could possibly do Then you think, well,

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actually, no, I can let go of perhaps, you

know, cleaning out the kids drawers or you

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know, making hummus from scratch because

those aren't, that's not what our family

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does, it's not what our family needs.

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Yeah, and that can change

season to season too, but yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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But I think, yeah, understanding sort

of day to day what the scaffold is for

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your day and understanding what things

your family focuses on is helpful.

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And another of the, we call them

busy beliefs in the book is that

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you should be on top of everything.

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And, and I know from interviewing,

you know, hundreds of women that

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no one's on top of everything that

everyone's laying awake at night.

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You know, trying to figure out the latest

domestic gremlin or all manner of problems

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and, and that that's really normal.

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And so I think we need to understand

everyone is making trade offs and to be

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able to get comfortable with our own trade

offs and our own compromises, knowing we,

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we choosing what works for our family.

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And that's very individual.

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And I think that all of those

things provide some resilience.

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In the face of social media or in the

face of should thoughts about, you

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know, I haven't washed my floors in, you

know, weeks and other people have, well,

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we're, we're busy making her make food.

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So yeah, just, just understanding, I

think that's totally something that

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I've worked through and I'm sure

I still am working through that.

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I love playing with my kids outside.

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I spend the majority of my days playing

outside, and that means that I do the

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bare minimum when it comes to housework.

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Like, I do our laundry, so we have clothes

to wear, and I make dinner, because that's

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important to me, to have a homemade meal.

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It doesn't need to be like high

end, but like a basic homemade meal.

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But yeah, like, bathrooms.

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Cleaned once a week on a really good

week, like, but just the basic level.

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Yeah.

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Basic sweeping, basic, just like the

very basics of cleaning you could do.

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And that's, that's what works for us

and my family right now in our season.

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So I really resonated with that.

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Like you say, just.

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just figuring out what's important

to you and what works for you.

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And then like you say if you do find

yourself getting caught up in the

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comparison game or the should game, like

just taking a step back and recognizing

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like, no, this is what's important for me.

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And this is what works for me.

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So I think that kind of leads into this.

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Oh, sorry.

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Go ahead.

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I was just going to say that, that another

one of the busy beliefs that can really

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come into play is this idea that I'm

going to feel better when task X is done.

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And that there's going to be some

miraculous sense of satisfaction or

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competence for something is going to come.

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And just, you know, years down

the track in motherhood, you

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know, no one's showing up at the

door with a prize, you know, but.

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You know and inevitably that, that

finish line just keeps moving.

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There's always the next

thing that I think.

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It might feel good for a minute, you

know, we might feel have this like short

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satisfaction, but it's not long lasting.

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It's like.

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No, it's, it's very brief.

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And inevitably that thing

needs doing again tomorrow.

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And yeah, so being really, you

know, able to remind ourselves

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of that, that when we're falling

into that trap, like, what is it?

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I'm thinking that, you know, I'm

getting, this is going to be terrific

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when everything's tidied up and being

realistic and honest about, you know,

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may not be that great, even though

the task is done, like what else is

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going on for me that I feel like I

need to have everything tidied up.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I think that's, that can be hard work to

do too, right, to, to dig deeper on that.

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And that's really what the book is

intended to do, to put some language

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around some of those things that are going

on for us so we can recognize it and then

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be able to move forward from it rather

than being led into unhelpful behaviors

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or exhaustion or over functioning or

being overly critical of ourselves.

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Totally.

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I think that actually would be helpful.

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Would you be willing to kind of give

an overview in the book you talk about?

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There's six different busy modes.

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Will you, Canada?

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Yeah.

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Touch on each of those.

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Yeah.

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So as I was saying, like, it's, it's

helpful to be able to understand or

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kind of decode our own behavior to

understand what's going on for us.

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And so when I was thinking about

how to do that, I thought, you know,

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how do we recognize what's going on?

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So.

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So we're trying to identify the basic,

basic kind of modes we go into when

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we're off track and we're doing too much.

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So the idea is that that women would look

at these busy modes when, when we realize

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we're kind of overdoing it and we want

to understand what's happening for us.

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So I'll just describe each one.

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So the first one is.

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Is duo mode when you're kind of being

that productive machine, you're just

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going from one task to the next.

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And you're, you're very much, as we said,

thinking, I have to get it all done.

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I'll feel better when the laundry's

put away and the kitchen's clean

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and, you know, all of those things.

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And so you're, you're probably tired.

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You haven't taken a break and

you really operating on this

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idea that I do keep going.

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I just need to be a machine, get

everything done and keep on going.

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So the next one is striver mode,

which is really about our standards.

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And it's when you're trying

to do everything to the

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highest possible standard.

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So imagine you're, you're making dinner

and it has to be the best, most nutritious

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dinner that looks delicious on the plate.

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It was economical and quick.

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It was the perfect meal.

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And approaching everything with

that, that High standard rather than

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:

recognizing that some things are

more important and need more of it.

364

:

And other things you can, you

can give a less effort to you.

365

:

So in striver mode, you're really

perhaps even your standards are

366

:

exceeding everyone else's standards.

367

:

So you might be the only one who thinks

you need a five star meal on the table.

368

:

Everybody else might be happy with

something simpler, but that kind of

369

:

that drive is coming from you either.

370

:

Because of your own kind of ambition,

or perhaps even sometimes a bit of fear

371

:

that we think if we, if we don't do

it well enough things won't be okay.

372

:

If we don't read enough stories, if we

don't spend enough time with our kids,

373

:

if we don't, you know, provide the

most enriching home, or if we don't get

374

:

enough exercise or, or whatever, it's,

it's, it's that kind of fear of I'm

375

:

worried things aren't going to be enough.

376

:

My mother is not going to be enough.

377

:

So that's driver mode.

378

:

And the next one is please enlarge where.

379

:

We're very much focused on everybody

else and keeping everybody else happy

380

:

and feeling like it's very much our

responsibility that our kids are happy

381

:

that our, our husband's happy that

our community is happy and people

382

:

like us and we're thought of as, as.

383

:

Being good and kind people and doing

the right thing and can take a lot

384

:

of energy kind of anticipating what

other people need and what they think.

385

:

And whether we've inconvenienced anyone,

whether we talk too much at the social

386

:

gathering, whether we helped enough.

387

:

And it's, it's, it's not really

about being a kind person.

388

:

It's about.

389

:

A level beyond that, where, where there's

some degree of disquiet in us, that,

390

:

that needs to make everybody happy.

391

:

And maybe there's perhaps a lack of

boundaries around things we can change and

392

:

things we can't change for other people

and how responsible we are for other

393

:

people's happiness and things like that.

394

:

So, so that's, that's when we're

in a mode where we're really

395

:

focused outside ourselves.

396

:

And then there's warrior mode where

we've got that constant stream

397

:

of what ifs happening in our head

of thinking, what if we're late?

398

:

What if I didn't buy enough food?

399

:

What if, you know, what

if I said the wrong thing?

400

:

Or what if an expensive

repair is needed for the car?

401

:

And it's just that constant stream.

402

:

And that kind of, it's, it's like a

hypervigilance where we're really in that

403

:

kind of anxious loop and that, you know,

That keeps us very mentally busy and it

404

:

often leads to a lot of practical business

too, because we we might want to research

405

:

to find out about particular topics that

we might want to double check something,

406

:

or we might want to redo something or

so that's a kind of a mental business,

407

:

but it also leads to practical business.

408

:

And so does pleaser mode too,

because we often say yes.

409

:

But we don't really have capacity.

410

:

And so we end up practically busy as well.

411

:

So all of these busy modes kind of,

they all have a dimension of mental,

412

:

practical and emotional business.

413

:

And they all kind of interrelate.

414

:

So the next one is avoid a mode,

which doesn't really sound like

415

:

a kind of business, but it's

actually that not uncommon mode.

416

:

Situation where you have

something that you know is

417

:

important and that's a priority.

418

:

And instead of working on that, you

do something that's not important.

419

:

Or you check out with social media.

420

:

So, so we call that avoid a mode

because there's something that you

421

:

need that needs to happen for you in

order to progress that bigger goal.

422

:

And often we, we do tend to, to

check out or we focus on other tasks.

423

:

And it creates busyness.

424

:

mentally because we're, we're

not where we need to be.

425

:

It creates emotional busyness because we

beat ourselves up because we didn't do

426

:

that important thing and we wasted time.

427

:

And then it creates practical business

because we inevitably run out of

428

:

time because we still have, you know,

dinner to make and we're no longer

429

:

trying to do that important task.

430

:

We're just trying to

get dinner on the table.

431

:

And and then we are practically

busy and it does look like business,

432

:

but it's actually begun with.

433

:

Avoidance.

434

:

And so the last one is missing out

mode, which is when we're busy trying

435

:

to, to join in everything because

we don't want to miss out and we

436

:

overcommit, or we become mentally and

emotionally busy because we feel like

437

:

we're not doing enough for our family

that other families are doing more.

438

:

More activities or have more friends or

have other experiences that we don't have.

439

:

And we get emotionally and

mentally joined up in that.

440

:

And that becomes very exhausting

and then trains our resources.

441

:

And, and then of course, there is that

practical side of it too, where we do say

442

:

yes to everything because it all sounds

good and we don't want to miss out.

443

:

We want to be a part of things.

444

:

So, so these six busy modes are a

way of understanding our behavior.

445

:

So we can say, well,

something's going on for me.

446

:

And we all know when we're off

kilter, when we when we're over

447

:

functioning or exhausted, or we

just really frazzled or overwhelmed.

448

:

So to be able to step back and say,

okay, what's going on for me, which of

449

:

these six busy modes have I gone into?

450

:

And then look at, I talk in each

of the chapters about What that

451

:

busy mode is, where it comes from.

452

:

So why a person might go into that

busy mode and then practically

453

:

what we can do to move out of it.

454

:

So, so that's meant to be a shorthand

way of understanding what's going on

455

:

for us and start to, to move forward

without the use of therapy and the

456

:

books and the, you know, getting your,

your PhD in psychology, but to be able

457

:

to grow in your own self awareness.

458

:

Because I mean, we, we learn you

know, how to, how to get a job or how

459

:

to manage money or how to contribute

in our community and do all these

460

:

things, but we don't ever learn how

to manage our own internal world.

461

:

And we don't really learn how to

understand and manage ourselves.

462

:

And I think in terms of being

intentional about, about our

463

:

lives, we really need those skills.

464

:

We need that insight.

465

:

And if we, if we keep falling into

traps with social media or, or anything

466

:

else, we need to be able to understand

ourselves and what's driving that so

467

:

that we can actually make lasting change.

468

:

And, and that was the issue for me.

469

:

I, I burnt out and I went back to being

busy because I didn't understand myself.

470

:

I wasn't able to recognize

what was going on for me.

471

:

You didn't know how to get out of it.

472

:

You didn't know how to.

473

:

No, I didn't really

know what was going on.

474

:

Yeah.

475

:

And, and like you say, it's something

we're not taught how to do, yet

476

:

it's so important because our world

is increasingly busy, you know,

477

:

increasingly focused on hyperplasticity.

478

:

Productivity and yeah, just, I

think there's this hyper focus

479

:

on productivity and screens move

our life at a faster pace and

480

:

everything is just faster and faster.

481

:

Like you talk about, not only

physically, but more so the mentally and

482

:

emotionally, it's feeling like we need

to move at a faster and faster pace.

483

:

For sure.

484

:

For sure.

485

:

Okay.

486

:

So you've kind of already touched on

this, but is there anything else you

487

:

wanted to talk about on how social media

contributes to a feeling of busyness?

488

:

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

489

:

And I think that what we sometimes don't

realize is that, is that everything

490

:

we consume Has to be processed.

491

:

So when we're consuming content online,

even if we're just scrolling through

492

:

an Instagram feed, you know, it, it

creates input that has to be processed

493

:

in terms of what do I think about that?

494

:

What does that mean for me?

495

:

Do I need to join in that activity?

496

:

Should I be doing that?

497

:

Should I be exercising more?

498

:

Should I be eating that food?

499

:

It kind of stirs us up

emotionally as well.

500

:

Am I, am I doing a good enough job?

501

:

Why is everybody else doing

this and I'm not doing that?

502

:

Or you know, that, that person looks

better than me or so it's not only you

503

:

know, the obvious issues like comparison,

but it, but it all has to be processed.

504

:

It's all input.

505

:

And I think a huge part of limiting

our sort of internal Busyness is

506

:

limiting the amount that we take in.

507

:

And it's almost like, you know, just

constantly eating from the buffet.

508

:

Your body's got to process all that,

you know, so if you're constantly

509

:

taking in all of this content, all of

this stimulation, your brain's actually

510

:

got to do something with all of that.

511

:

And it takes a lot of.

512

:

Mental resources to filter it

for relevance and to decide

513

:

whether to do something about it.

514

:

And it's, you know, constantly

touching and triggering different

515

:

feelings that you've then got

to process or, or stuff down.

516

:

And yeah, so we need to think about the

volume of content that we're taking in.

517

:

And even.

518

:

You know, some, some simple things like

you know, I, I used to often check my

519

:

email on my phone when I was in the

supermarket queue, just cause I had time.

520

:

And I kind of have a new rule for

myself that I, I won't check email.

521

:

Or any kind of messages at a time

that I can't respond because I've

522

:

just, it's just an open loop.

523

:

And, and if I can't close that

loop, I'm just, I'm just inviting a

524

:

mental and emotional load, really.

525

:

So I think, I think we really need to

be wise about the volume of content

526

:

that we're taking in and the volume

of information and stimulation

527

:

that we're exposing ourselves to.

528

:

So, so that's one point.

529

:

And the other point is is about looking

for a good enough example and looking

530

:

for a good enough role model so that what

we're looking at really is reinforcing

531

:

this message that people aren't doing

it all that everyone's making mistakes

532

:

and no one's life is perfect and.

533

:

Just consciously seeking out

those role models to just

534

:

keep reinforcing that message.

535

:

Yeah.

536

:

And there's a podcast that I

listened to an Australian podcast

537

:

called this glorious mess.

538

:

And in each episode they talk about

a weekly, weekly nails and fails.

539

:

So things that went really well

and things didn't, that didn't

540

:

so I think, you know, looking for

those examples of people who are.

541

:

living the realistic life that we

are living and that you are you

542

:

know, have the same values as us.

543

:

It's really powerful.

544

:

Yeah.

545

:

I think those are really good points of

advice and good things to think about

546

:

because like you say, I never thought

about that way that that anytime you

547

:

consume anything, you have to process it.

548

:

And.

549

:

You think of it as just

like it's all subconscious.

550

:

Like, I think like you were saying,

like, what do I think about this?

551

:

Do I need to do that?

552

:

Do I need to, like all of the things,

it's like all subconscious, but it is

553

:

adding to the busyness going on for you.

554

:

And that's something that I talk about in,

a podcast episode I've done previously.

555

:

I think I call it turn off the noise

or turn down the noise or something.

556

:

And just how, like, there is a really

good content out there you know,

557

:

podcasts and Instagram accounts and

books and, I always say, like, I'm,

558

:

I know that I'm adding to it, like,

I'm part of the noise in your life.

559

:

And so that can be really good.

560

:

But if you don't take time to be still

and just listen to your own inner voice,

561

:

you're going to be missing things.

562

:

You know, you, you have this inner

voice that will help you in your

563

:

own life and you don't want to

just be, yeah, dictated by things.

564

:

Constant other people's opinions

and thoughts and information.

565

:

Anyways, I think that's something that,

566

:

that time to be still and be quiet.

567

:

And it's uncomfortable at first.

568

:

If you, if you're used to the,

the constant noise, like I said,

569

:

of really good, helpful input.

570

:

When it's quiet, it's a little

bit uncomfortable to just listen

571

:

to yourself and your own thoughts

and be alone with your thoughts.

572

:

I talk in the book about this

mind wandering practice of just

573

:

intentionally creating some space to

to just sit and let your mind wander.

574

:

And that's That's the time where your

kind of own thoughts and ideas and

575

:

perspectives emerge from your subconscious

and you start to make connections

576

:

between things and realize things.

577

:

And for me, that's been some of the

times where I've become aware of, often

578

:

with my kids, something that someone

might need or a solution for something

579

:

kind of will, will come to my mind

because I've allowed my mind to wonder.

580

:

And there's a whole lot of science

behind that, but, but that's when you

581

:

tap into those, not just those insights

from your inner voice, which of course

582

:

is, is there, but also that's the time

when your brain is free to join the dots

583

:

and make connections between things.

584

:

And you go, ah, I see that now.

585

:

And those are insights and things that you

can't get when you're living in a million

586

:

miles an hour and you're constantly

listening to someone else's voice.

587

:

Yeah.

588

:

So, yeah.

589

:

Yeah.

590

:

So that's, that's a, that's

a challenge for being in tour

591

:

mode or being in warrior mode.

592

:

Yeah, to be able to step

back in and allow that space.

593

:

Yeah.

594

:

So, so important.

595

:

I love that.

596

:

The mind wandering practice.

597

:

I'm excited to get to

that part of the book.

598

:

Seriously, this, the more I

talk with you, I just, I want

599

:

to tell everybody about you.

600

:

I think you just have such,

such good things to share

601

:

on this really big problem.

602

:

So thank you.

603

:

Yeah, absolutely.

604

:

So I feel like we've talked about

how social media and really just

605

:

podcasts and noise and just in

general can make us feel more busy.

606

:

On the flip side, how can someone

use social media in a way that

607

:

actually helps them tackle busyness?

608

:

I think we're wired for comparison and

we're wired for learning and growth.

609

:

And I think social media is does

give us an opportunity to have

610

:

some really exciting things.

611

:

Helpful reference points for our lives.

612

:

And so if, if we do have a challenge

or a problem you know, it, it's really

613

:

helpful to tap into information from

other people, like if we're having trouble

614

:

getting our kids to eat well or sleep

well, or we want to know developmentally

615

:

what's appropriate for our kids.

616

:

There's loads of really

helpful information out there.

617

:

We're really blessed to be able

to tap into that information.

618

:

And so I think to be able to learn what

we need to learn and tap into that, that

619

:

expertise is, is actually a terrific way.

620

:

And I think a lot of

people on social media are.

621

:

Very much offering advice for

people, a few steps behind them in

622

:

the journey and have have figured

something out and want to share it.

623

:

And so I think, you know, there's,

there's great opportunity for us to

624

:

learn from the benefit from what other

people have learned and experienced.

625

:

So I think social media is.

626

:

He's hugely helpful for that.

627

:

And then it becomes about finding

the right people to follow.

628

:

As I said before, that are modeling

the kind of life we want to be living.

629

:

And then putting some

boundaries around that.

630

:

And I talk a little bit in the book

about for example, if you're in warrior

631

:

mode, you might be just constantly

looking for more and more information.

632

:

So you've kind of taken a good thing in it

and playing hard to put the brakes on it.

633

:

You enjoy it.

634

:

Another article in another podcast

and another thing about that

635

:

topic when really, you know, all

you need to know, but it's just.

636

:

Feeling some anxiety.

637

:

So I think if we have those,

boundaries in place, then it becomes

638

:

an incredible resource and being able

to tap into the brain's trust on a

639

:

particular issue is, is terrific.

640

:

So I think that's really helpful.

641

:

And I think equally to it can be

really encouraging and inspiring.

642

:

There are lots of voices out there

that will like, like yours, that, that

643

:

really are, are helping us to live well.

644

:

And so I think it, it becomes

about being discerning.

645

:

And again, the analogy of the buffet

table, you know, what we're choosing

646

:

to sample, the, the, the, the,

the, The problem isn't the buffet.

647

:

It's, it's perhaps understanding

the best way to use it.

648

:

And I think like we were talking about

earlier, if you can take some time

649

:

to, you know, have mind wandering

time and time to process, then , when

650

:

you are on social media, when you

are consuming content, you are in a

651

:

better place to say, you know what,

this actually Isn't helpful right now.

652

:

I don't need this right now.

653

:

Or this is really what I need right now.

654

:

You know, it's you're better able to kind

of differentiate of what what you do need

655

:

at the time and what to Set aside and

come back for later when you're hungry

656

:

again or when you need something else.

657

:

Yeah.

658

:

Yeah Yeah.

659

:

And understanding those things that

that can drive us towards social media.

660

:

Like if we, if we're perhaps avoiding

some uncomfortable feelings or we're

661

:

feeling frustrated or we're feeling bored.

662

:

And there's a, you know, the avoid a

mode chapter has a, you know, a table

663

:

to identify some of those things.

664

:

And Work at what you might actually need.

665

:

We get in this habit of checking

out on social media and then

666

:

rather than saying, okay, well,

what actually do I need right now?

667

:

And it might be that I am bored.

668

:

I might be lonely.

669

:

I might be frustrated.

670

:

I might be just finding life really

stimulating in my day to day.

671

:

day to day busyness.

672

:

So what actually do I need and how

can I meet that need rather than

673

:

reaching straight for social media?

674

:

And it's, it's you know, really

well understood that, that habits

675

:

are they're, they're reliable

solutions for recurring problems.

676

:

So, If every time we feel bored or

every time we feel frustrated we reach

677

:

for our phone, then that becomes a,

you know, a pattern, you know, a rut

678

:

that will stay in because it works.

679

:

So there's absolutely a need where

we're experiencing, but it's a matter

680

:

of just pausing and saying, okay,

what is actually my real need here?

681

:

Is there a different way

that I can meet that need?

682

:

And sometimes even just delaying.

683

:

Picking up your phone or delaying

doing whatever you were going to

684

:

do can be enough to break the cycle

and to just pause and think, well,

685

:

what do I actually need right now?

686

:

What am I feeling?

687

:

What's going on for me?

688

:

And what's the most

constructive thing I can do?

689

:

And sometimes it might be picking up

your phone that might be the, might be

690

:

the ideal thing to do, but with them,

then at least you're choosing that

691

:

consciously and you know what it's going

to give you and what you actually need.

692

:

So yeah, I definitely think trying

to break that automatic habit cycle

693

:

by, by waiting and then asking

ourselves what it is we really need.

694

:

Yeah, absolutely.

695

:

And I think well, I feel like there's

a lot on this, but like, I think

696

:

there's a lot of shame around people.

697

:

Like, I know I used to be in this but

I felt like, so yeah, ashamed that I

698

:

would always turn to my phone whenever

I was feeling in an uncomfortable

699

:

emotion or something like that.

700

:

And like, Even once I like knew that's

what was happening, I kept doing it.

701

:

But like you say, it's actually a really

good thing that your brain does that.

702

:

Cause it means it's working correctly.

703

:

Like that is a survival instinct your

brain is trying to avoid that pain and

704

:

it knows that the phone is working.

705

:

A really good tool to make that

pain temporarily be numbed.

706

:

And so I think just accepting that,

like, okay, yeah, this is what

707

:

my body's supposed to be doing.

708

:

It's not actually solving the problem.

709

:

It's not really helping the situation,

but that just kind of can help me put

710

:

some space between the behavior and my

feelings around it, like my, that shame.

711

:

And like you said, just like delaying

it, that's something that I do.

712

:

Like if I have the.

713

:

the urge to go on social media

at a time that I haven't planned.

714

:

I just have like a standard that

I just have to like write in

715

:

my journal on my phone how I'm

feeling and then I can go on.

716

:

So it's like I still can go on and

usually like as soon as I write

717

:

down how I'm feeling I'm like,

okay, I'm actually ready to deal

718

:

with this and sometimes I'm not.

719

:

Sometimes I'm like I don't want

to deal with this right now.

720

:

It's just good to have

that little buffer of like.

721

:

Okay, this is what I'm feeling.

722

:

This is what's going on for me.

723

:

Am I ready to deal with this right now?

724

:

Or would it be better to go on a

walk or do some jumping jacks or,

725

:

you know, cope in a different way

than through mindless scrolling?

726

:

Yeah, I think we can have compassion

for ourselves that this is something

727

:

we've figured out to help us cope.

728

:

You know, these are real challenges we're,

we're facing and, and life is hard and

729

:

this is an easy solution and it totally

makes sense that we would rely on that.

730

:

Yeah, it's, it's, as you say,

it's what we're programmed,

731

:

programmed for and it works.

732

:

It's just that it has some other

consequences that we may not be aware of.

733

:

As happy with and I think the other

pieces around helping ourselves

734

:

transition from, you know, that sort

of immediate endorphin hit to a sort

735

:

of slower burn satisfaction of maybe

a hobby or investing in our fitness or

736

:

relationships or those sorts of things.

737

:

So, so that's not a, that's not a

quick fix, you know, to, to shift

738

:

ourselves from one kind of Release or

one kind of satisfaction to another.

739

:

And so having compassion for

ourselves around that too, and

740

:

that we're not, we're not failing

every time we pick up our phone.

741

:

And it doesn't mean we can't do it.

742

:

It's just, you know, exercising a

different muscle and it's, you know,

743

:

changing an established pattern and

that all takes time and intentionality.

744

:

And I think it's tempting to think,

you know, when we're not present and

745

:

we're lost in their head or a phone

to think, you know, this is too hard.

746

:

I can't do it.

747

:

I can't be present.

748

:

Well, we have to start in a way

that's realistic and say, you

749

:

know, I just want to focus on

being present for this 10 minutes.

750

:

And, and build from there rather

than thinking I'm supposed to be

751

:

present a hundred percent of the time.

752

:

And that's hard.

753

:

Especially when what we're being

present to is often pretty challenging.

754

:

Yeah.

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

So, so I think just you know, a lot of

my kids were little you know, I, in, in

757

:

all honesty would look at the clock and

say for 15 minutes, I'm going to sit.

758

:

And just be completely present in

this game or this thing and take that

759

:

something off my to do list you know,

and kind of build from there because

760

:

otherwise my natural tendency was to

do all the chores because that seemed

761

:

satisfying or, you know you know, there

was something to see from my time.

762

:

Oh, totally.

763

:

I think that's very relatable.

764

:

Yeah.

765

:

Yeah.

766

:

And, and yeah, like you say, I

think it's not realistic to be.

767

:

Fully present for really extended

periods of time, especially

768

:

for certain activities.

769

:

Yeah.

770

:

Just setting really small standards.

771

:

I think that's something that's been

really helpful for me and for my

772

:

kids too, to it's kind of shifted

depending on our phase of life.

773

:

But right now I have special time with

my son right before he does quiet time.

774

:

And it's really good to just have that.

775

:

It's like 15 minutes where

I am fully focused on him.

776

:

And it feels like it's easier to be

present because I know all of my thoughts

777

:

and my things I'm going to do, I'm

going to have a time for those later.

778

:

But right now, like my time is with him.

779

:

Yeah, I think so for sure.

780

:

And if you think you need to be present

or you need to be patient or you need

781

:

to be understanding from now until

forever, then it seems overwhelming.

782

:

But if you think I just need to do

it for 10 minutes, then I can do.

783

:

Yeah.

784

:

Yeah.

785

:

So that's been helpful, you know,

with a whole lot of things to me.

786

:

And I think that also applies to

what we were talking about earlier

787

:

with taking time to, to just have

some silence and not have input.

788

:

Start out really small with that, you

know, just really small pockets of time.

789

:

Like, when you're in the shower or when

you're, you know, I'm trying to think

790

:

of other things that you might already

be doing, or maybe when you're driving

791

:

in the car, like instead of turning on

music or a podcast, just let it be quiet.

792

:

Or if you're on a walk, just things

that you're already doing when you

793

:

normally add some input, just one of

those times, try it without input.

794

:

For sure.

795

:

For sure.

796

:

Yeah.

797

:

Yeah.

798

:

Starting small is key with anything.

799

:

I think.

800

:

Yeah.

801

:

Right.

802

:

Yeah.

803

:

Okay.

804

:

I did you have anything else to add

about, like, how can you recognize

805

:

your real need when you find yourself

checking out with social media?

806

:

Well I think I, I have a checklist

in the book, but it's, it's really

807

:

looking at Understanding what it

is that you, you want, and there's

808

:

sort of a, what's showing up and

what the need is and then how might,

809

:

how you might meet it in the book.

810

:

So, so really, the types of things that

can be happening are you're actually

811

:

struggling with what it is you need to do.

812

:

For example, you may be overwhelmed with

the amount that you have to do, in which

813

:

case it becomes about the practical

logistics of how you start small to

814

:

be able to tackle what you need to do.

815

:

I think boredom is a big one.

816

:

So asking ourselves whether we're

looking for some kind of stimulation.

817

:

And so being able to step back and

say, what actually does that for me?

818

:

Is there a hobby or an interest that

I can start to cultivate that I can

819

:

have available for those times when

I just want something interesting?

820

:

And I think we can kind of recognize

that sometimes where we're just bored.

821

:

And we're wondering what's

happening in the big wide world.

822

:

So understanding what lights us up.

823

:

And again, there's a chapter in

the book about what our needs are,

824

:

but understanding like where we

might need to invest in order to

825

:

get that more organically from

ourselves rather than looking for it

826

:

outside ourselves on social media.

827

:

Sometimes we're lonely.

828

:

And so picking up the phone and messaging

a friend, rather than, you know, scrolling

829

:

through to see what people are doing,

but actually reaching for authentic

830

:

connection, rather than looking for that

distant connection that social media

831

:

gets us through sort of images and posts.

832

:

Or you may be feeling frustrated

with something that's not working.

833

:

And rather than tackling that problem,

you know, we tend to check out.

834

:

So those are some of the types

of things that might be things

835

:

that we need other than other

than to be picking up our phone.

836

:

And I guess the last one would be

that sometimes we just do need a break

837

:

and letting our mind wander or doing

something with our body can be really

838

:

helpful to sitting outside in the fresh

air for we're outside coming inside

839

:

for inside going outside, changing

something about our physical state.

840

:

Getting up and moving around just

to start to tune into, to what's

841

:

happening in our body rather than

what's happening in our mind.

842

:

So those are some of the, the,

the sorts of things that we can

843

:

become aware of rather than just

instantly picking up our phone.

844

:

Totally just checking yeah, what

is that true need and how can you

845

:

meet that true need instead of just

escaping it and coming back to it later.

846

:

Fascinating.

847

:

I love that.

848

:

Any last thoughts today?

849

:

I feel like you just have so much wisdom

on this topic of busyness and like you

850

:

said at the beginning, the not just

the, The physical busyness, but also

851

:

that mental and emotional busyness that

really I think a lot of us struggle

852

:

with more than just the physical.

853

:

So any last last words today?

854

:

I think, I think really.

855

:

We just need to be so

compassionate with ourselves.

856

:

I think, you know, we can get caught

into performance and trying to

857

:

manufacture this perfect life for

families and to do everything so well.

858

:

And we get very hard on ourselves

and have these expectations,

859

:

which just really don't serve us.

860

:

So to be able to be compassionate

which, which comes more naturally

861

:

to some people than others.

862

:

Yeah, I think that that's,

that's always a starting point.

863

:

And Whenever we're off track in any way

whether we're too busy or whether we've

864

:

wasted time on social media or something

else, being able to be compassionate.

865

:

Because if we start from a place of

self judgment and self criticism, then

866

:

it shuts down our, our physiology and

our, our brain and our emotions and our

867

:

capacity to change anything is diminished.

868

:

Aside from anything else, you know,

it's less effective if we, if we're

869

:

harsh and judgmental, any kind

of change is much more difficult.

870

:

We need to start from self compassion.

871

:

And I think that's a lot of what

I've tried to share in the book.

872

:

And I, I've shared a lot of stories

from my own life and experience and, you

873

:

know, and those are things I look at.

874

:

You know, with compassion, I

think, well, okay, what not to do.

875

:

Yeah.

876

:

And I think that, that that's

yeah, a huge, a huge shift that

877

:

we can, we can work towards.

878

:

Yeah.

879

:

I think that is huge.

880

:

It reminds me of I recently read

that book by Casey Davis, how

881

:

to keep house while drowning.

882

:

And she talks about, she

uses that phrase, nobody.

883

:

shamed themselves into

better mental health.

884

:

And I think sometimes we

try to do that, right?

885

:

We shame ourselves into all of these

things, you know, and it's not effective.

886

:

It doesn't work.

887

:

And so I love that.

888

:

Just being compassionate.

889

:

And like you said earlier, these things

that you teach in this book, I think

890

:

you give really practical ways for moms

to to, yeah, break free of being busy.

891

:

But like you were saying earlier, you

were saying it's a muscle that you

892

:

build, you know, that you, you work on

and you improve and you get better at.

893

:

And so I think your book

walks you through that.

894

:

It will help you do that, but it

takes compassion as you're building

895

:

those muscles and yeah, just

getting better at these things.

896

:

Yeah.

897

:

Yeah, for sure.

898

:

Well, thank you so much.

899

:

This has been so great and

just, yeah, such an honor to.

900

:

Be reading your book and to get

to hear more from you about this.

901

:

this topic that is so

needed in this day and age.

902

:

Yeah, thank you.

903

:

No, I've appreciated the time to to share

and I do have on my website a a download

904

:

which might be helpful to to people

listening that just it's kind of like a

905

:

cheat sheet for making the day easier.

906

:

So sort of understanding what, what

those core things are that you might

907

:

want to work on through the day.

908

:

And then some of those mindset

shifts that might help you to just

909

:

have that compassion for yourself.

910

:

Oh, perfect.

911

:

That'll be so helpful.

912

:

Yeah.

913

:

Well, you let my listeners

know where they can find you.

914

:

Okay.

915

:

I met Suzanne ghost, my.

916

:

com.

917

:

So Suzanne is S U S A N N E

and ghost my G E R S T M Y E R.

918

:

Suzanne gos.com.

919

:

Yep.

920

:

And I'll, I'll link that

in the show notes as well.

921

:

So that's your, your website

and then on the website is where

922

:

they can find that cheat sheet?

923

:

Yeah.

924

:

Yep.

925

:

Okay.

926

:

For sure.

927

:

And then where can people order your book?

928

:

What's the best way to get that?

929

:

You can find it on Amazon.

930

:

Okay.

931

:

Yep.

932

:

So that would be the

best place to, to get it.

933

:

Okay.

934

:

I will , link that as well because

like I said, I've been reading

935

:

it and it's, it's fantastic.

936

:

So I highly recommend.

937

:

Thank you.

938

:

Thank you.

939

:

And thanks for the chat today.

940

:

I've really enjoyed it.

941

:

Yeah, I have too.

942

:

This has been so fun.

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About the Podcast

Mindful with Media
This is the podcast for entrepreneurial moms who want to grow a meaningful, profitable business without sacrificing their other priorities (like spending time with their kids or getting enough sleep).

Host Alex Fales—business coach, mindset mentor, and mom—shares honest conversations, simple strategies, and powerful mindset shifts to help you and make money doing work you love and grow as a person while you're at it.

Expect solo episodes, authentic chats, and real-life stories that help you blend business strategy with personal growth, so you can build a business that supports your life (not the other way around).

Because you don’t need more hustle.
You need clarity, confidence, and the courage to do business your way.